Hidden Servers Ban Appeal

[Leninade]

Think the main reason it's so long is because the penalties for repeated team kills goes up quite a bit. 5 TKs is enough for a week or so, and 6 is usually a perma.

Honestly, given how many bans we have to dish out, it's next to impossible to tell if one tker is any better than the next.

[Pyro]

This shows 11 Teamkills, while 6 teamkills is already a permanent ban, please explain why we should unban you.

I understand that an accident while shooting the hidden can happen, but 11 teamkills is REALLY suspicious.

Code: [Select]

L 05/21/2013 - 16:04:40: Log file started (file "logs\L0521062.log") (game "c:\gameservers\hiddenserver2\hidden") (version "4044")
L 05/21/2013 - 16:04:40: server_cvar: "sm_stk_version" "1.0d"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:15:41: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" joined team "Spectator"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:15:41: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><>" entered the game
L 05/21/2013 - 16:15:48: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><Spectator>" joined team "IRIS"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:18:00: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "asilveras<56><STEAM_0:1:60768862><Hidden>" for "<26>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:18:00: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "asilveras<56><STEAM_0:1:60768862><Hidden>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:18:00: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "asilveras<56><STEAM_0:1:60768862><Hidden>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:18:01: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "asilveras<56><STEAM_0:1:60768862><Hidden>" for "<26>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:18:01: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" killed "asilveras<56><STEAM_0:1:60768862><Hidden>" with "fn2000"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:18:08: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" say_team "Checking In"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:19:30: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Commander Derpy<52><STEAM_0:1:55686926><Hidden>" for "<22>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:19:30: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Commander Derpy<52><STEAM_0:1:55686926><Hidden>" for "<21>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:20:17: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "StandingUpIsoverrated<58><STEAM_0:1:61138728><Hidden>" for "<23>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:20:19: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "StandingUpIsoverrated<58><STEAM_0:1:61138728><Hidden>" for "<23>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:20:27: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "StandingUpIsoverrated<58><STEAM_0:1:61138728><Hidden>" for "<23>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:20:27: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" killed "StandingUpIsoverrated<58><STEAM_0:1:61138728><Hidden>" with "fn2000"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:21:32: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Tprav<51><STEAM_0:0:13485781><Hidden>" for "<23>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:21:32: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Tprav<51><STEAM_0:0:13485781><Hidden>" for "<23>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:21:33: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Tprav<51><STEAM_0:0:13485781><Hidden>" for "<23>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:21:33: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Tprav<51><STEAM_0:0:13485781><Hidden>" for "<23>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:21:33: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Tprav<51><STEAM_0:0:13485781><Hidden>" for "<23>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:21:33: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" killed "Tprav<51><STEAM_0:0:13485781><Hidden>" with "fn2000"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:21:46: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "iBanana<48><STEAM_0:1:49677070><IRIS>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:21:46: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "iBanana<48><STEAM_0:1:49677070><IRIS>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:21:47: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "iBanana<48><STEAM_0:1:49677070><IRIS>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:21:47: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "iBanana<48><STEAM_0:1:49677070><IRIS>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:21:47: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" killed "iBanana<48><STEAM_0:1:49677070><IRIS>" with "fn2000"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:22:18: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" say "Ibanana shot me last round"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:22:21: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" say "so I killed him"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:22:23: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" say "retard"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:25:39: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><IRIS>" for "<14>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:25:40: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><IRIS>" for "<14>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:25:40: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><IRIS>" for "<14>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:25:44: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><IRIS>" for "<24>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:25:44: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><IRIS>" for "<24>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:25:45: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><IRIS>" for "<24>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:25:45: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" killed "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><IRIS>" with "fn2000"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:10: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Ron Burgandyâ„¢<61><STEAM_0:1:16645509><IRIS>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:11: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Ron Burgandyâ„¢<61><STEAM_0:1:16645509><IRIS>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:12: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Ron Burgandyâ„¢<61><STEAM_0:1:16645509><IRIS>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:12: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Ron Burgandyâ„¢<61><STEAM_0:1:16645509><IRIS>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:12: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" killed "Ron Burgandyâ„¢<61><STEAM_0:1:16645509><IRIS>" with "fn2000"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:13: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "asilveras<56><STEAM_0:1:60768862><IRIS>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:13: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "asilveras<56><STEAM_0:1:60768862><IRIS>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:14: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Echochrome4<62><STEAM_0:0:59670684><IRIS>" for "<26>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:14: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Echochrome4<62><STEAM_0:0:59670684><IRIS>" for "<26>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:14: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" killed "Echochrome4<62><STEAM_0:0:59670684><IRIS>" with "fn2000"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:15: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "asilveras<56><STEAM_0:1:60768862><IRIS>" for "<24>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:15: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "asilveras<56><STEAM_0:1:60768862><IRIS>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:15: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" killed "asilveras<56><STEAM_0:1:60768862><IRIS>" with "fn2000"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:17: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "iBanana<48><STEAM_0:1:49677070><IRIS>" for "<15>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:17: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "iBanana<48><STEAM_0:1:49677070><IRIS>" for "<15>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:18: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "iBanana<48><STEAM_0:1:49677070><IRIS>" for "<15>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:18: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "iBanana<48><STEAM_0:1:49677070><IRIS>" for "<14>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:18: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "iBanana<48><STEAM_0:1:49677070><IRIS>" for "<14>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:19: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "iBanana<48><STEAM_0:1:49677070><IRIS>" for "<15>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:25: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "iBanana<48><STEAM_0:1:49677070><IRIS>" for "<15>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:28:25: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" killed "iBanana<48><STEAM_0:1:49677070><IRIS>" with "pistol2"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:30:02: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><Hidden>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:30:02: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><Hidden>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:30:03: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><Hidden>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:30:03: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" killed "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><Hidden>" with "fn2000"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:31:24: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><IRIS>" for "<26>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:31:24: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><IRIS>" for "<26>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:31:24: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><IRIS>" for "<26>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:31:25: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" hurt "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><IRIS>" for "<25>" with ""
L 05/21/2013 - 16:31:25: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" killed "Batman<47><STEAM_0:0:46947107><IRIS>" with "fn2000"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:35:17: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" disconnected (reason "You have been banned by this server, check http://www.conjointga")
L 05/21/2013 - 16:35:27: [META] Loaded 0 plugins (1 already loaded)
L 05/21/2013 - 16:35:27: [META] Loaded 0 plugins (1 already loaded)
L 05/21/2013 - 16:35:27: Log file closed


[Red]

Most of the posts in this thread are not at all constructive. First off this is a ban appeal so there is absolutely no reason for admins to get overly defensive especially when he isn't even asking for the ban to be removed and fully admits he was in the wrong. Secondly, if he is banned for a year what is the point of beating him over the head with pointless hindsight? Also he is right a year ban for a first offense is harsh, players don't have to bend the knee to the admin overlords or feel their wrath. He was banned for revenge TKing, how many times the admin in game told him to stop is irrelevant.

tl:dr, I see no issue with his ban being shortened, also be nice.

The fact that he was banned for a year doesn't mean simply a year ban, the trial admins, Echo and Cash, had the idea that, due to the fact that they can't permaban they should try to tell an admin/veteran admin/Pyro that this person has done something to deserve a permanent ban without having to message them about it or write down "requesting a permanent ban" in the ban description.

[Echochrome4]

Yes, as when trying to ban someone you have to type out the ban fast enough so you don't miss the person if they leave.  So what I thought should be done is because trial admins cannot give perma bans they should set it too a year as none of our bans have that ban time:

1-2 warning
3 hour
4 day
5 week
6 perma ban

I thought that when a higher level admin sees this year ban then they could change it, and there is no need to write out a long description including, "...requesting a perma ban change"   Then it will be easier to catch the team killer if they try and leave to avoid the ban. 

Like Pyro said, you had 11, some of those were probaby before I got on because I don't remember alot with the other people on the server, as they all left except for a few people when I got on.  I do remember one round when everyone spawned you mass team killed everyone at spawn.  If you had 6 team kills then maybe it could be a unban, but you had 11.  My honest opinion is that you should stay banned, because in game if someone team kills you, and you can't control yourself and that make you revenge team kill multiple people, that's just not needed on our servers.  When someone team kills, the admin will take care of it, and in this case you didn't listen to my warnings to stop team killing and because of that you got banned. 

[Dante]

Just a random question, why do you need to have FF on?

[Echochrome4]

If we removed friendly fire it eliminates most of the needs for admins.

That's like saying if we removed players it would remove the need for admins. Well Dah, but FF is a very imporant standard part of Hidden gameplay, it was made and intended to be that way, to turn it off would be silly and stupid. I do think the sourcemod FF systems needs to be added but I'm having trouble getting it to work atm (lets player slay someone if they are killed by them)

FF Doesn't have to on to be fun, but with the amount of trolls I'd say to turn it off (AND SAY IT'S TURNED OFF in the server title) for a bit, then turn it on in a couple of days. (But still have the server title say FF=OFF)

I HIGHLY disagree, FF is an essential part of Hidden and it's why can't be a retard and shot wildly, and honestly the trolls aren't that big a deal banned and gone. With the slay after kill system it's pretty much set. Also 90% of hidden servers are FF and on weighted FF counts agenst your weight. It's made and designed for FF gameplay FF makes it more realistic and gives it that great hidden feel. Adds to intensity of the moment and requires more skill to make sure you don't kill your whole team on accident.

We just need a couple admins.

Just like what Inject said in the "Looking for active admins for The Hidden" page, I believe friendly fire is a big part esspecialy because 3 out of 4 of our servers are weighted.

[Pyro]

Teamkilling counts against weighting.

Now back ontopic please. Explain how you could've killed 11 people by accident.

[BillSmauz]

Teamkilling counts against weighting.

Now back ontopic please. Explain how you could've killed 11 people by accident.

I'm not sure where you're getting the number 11 from, in the console log you posted the first 4 kills were players when they were Hidden.

Before Echo notified me to stop:
1. IBanana had shot me and several other players intentionally (it was as soon as the round started) damaging us so I killed him for doing so, the console logs will confirm this
2. If you go through the logs you will see that Batman started to TK players, myself included, so I decided to unwisely avenge/revenge TK Batman on several occasions which is the bulk of the TK's
3. One round in particular, Batman started to TK and I began to shoot players as well (thinking they were Batman) and damaging: Ron Burgandy, asilveras, Echochrome4

from there, Echo warned us the server to stop TKing (by this time several players had already left)

After the warning:
Batman continued to TK both me and Echo (you can confirm this by seeing the console logs in their entirety). Echo warned that if TKing continued, we'd be banned but Batman had continued to TK and wasn't punished which lead me to believe that Echo wasn't an admin. So I decided to revenge TK Batman before being banned.

All of this can be confirmed in the unabridged console log. I understand that I am in the wrong for revenge TKing an not listening to the admin and for that I apologize. If you feel I deserve to be permabanned for an isolated incident then I cannot argue, I can only promise that I won't disobey these rules again.

[Echochrome4]

I took care of Batman after you got banned, because that's when he teamkilled for a 6th time, that I had seen. 

Even if there are no admins on, revenge teamkilling is not acceptable.

When you revenge teamkill it is counting against you.  Yours added up above 6, resulting in a perma ban. 

I am still not convinced that  you should be unbanned, and the 11 teamkills is not something that is taken lightly.

We do not need people creating a toxic environment in our servers. Therefore, banned. Request thread lock.

[CashPrizes]

he killed 7 and if he is saying the truth some of those could be self defense...

Even if that may be the case, he still has surpassed the 6 teamkills mark which is a permanent ban by our rules.

[Echochrome4]

Self defense killing is revenge teamkilling!!  If he just would have let Batman kill him and not revenge teamkill then I would have seen the 6th teamkill earlier, and Batman would have been banned.  BillSmauz did not listen to my warnings and that got him banned. 

[Dante]

Self defense killing is revenge teamkilling!!  If he just would have let Batman kill him and not revenge teamkill then I would have seen the 6th teamkill earlier, and Batman would have been banned.  BillSmauz did not listen to my warnings and that got him banned.

Why is Self Defense revenge teamkilling?

[Leninade]

Self defense killing is revenge teamkilling!!  If he just would have let Batman kill him and not revenge teamkill then I would have seen the 6th teamkill earlier, and Batman would have been banned.  BillSmauz did not listen to my warnings and that got him banned.

Why is Self Defense revenge teamkilling?

There's a built in function on all the servers that will ban players once they hit 5 TKs. If you revenge TK, then in addition to letting the TKer last longer on the server, you also put yourself closer to that limit. Couple that with not listening to an admins warnings, and I'd say the ban was justified.

However, I will say this: I don't agree with letting a TKer TK as much as possible in order to justify the longest ban possible. I honestly prefer banning once they hit the threshold, as it gives them time to at least reform what they've done, vs. just suddenly being perma banned from the server.

[Mr_Rainbow]

I think the ban should stay.

[Leetgrain]

+1 on ban staying.

I think we've told you before not to +/- on ban appeals/requests, can't say I've not done the same but I think you've been told before. (IIRC)


ANYWAY, the logs do seem... to not be in your favour, like admitting revenge TK the next round:

Code: [Select]

L 05/21/2013 - 16:22:18: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" say "Ibanana shot me last round"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:22:21: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" say "so I killed him"
L 05/21/2013 - 16:22:23: "IRS Recruit<57><STEAM_0:0:10041065><IRIS>" say "retard"