We need to clear something up.

[theyankees213]

I cant believe it hasnt been said, but shots cant really matter in this because of the infamous shitboxes. I don't think where the shots were is in even relevant to whats happening so..

[Kacey]

This isn't the first time that Caboose has trolled people with grey area tactics like this. He's done it to me as well if you recall old crow. The fact that you shot a detective and we have no way of indicating warning shots or a verbal other than testimonies and the such makes this a very big grey area. However if we compare the damage of the shots it seems like epic was not trying to shoot to kill versus caboose who dealt a headshot.

maybe he just have bad aim...
btw... i dunno about that last part... because i killed my self and left so.. yeah :k

I did in truth intend to kill caboose. He jumped and took legshots.

[Tictactoe360]

However if we compare the damage of the shots it seems like epic was not trying to shoot to kill versus caboose who dealt a headshot.

I know no one has really said anything about this but not everyone shoots for the head, you can kill someone in less than 5 seconds with body shots anyways.

This whole thing is a tricky situation, I believe that Epic has lost a lot of the legitimacy of his claim with the actions he has demonstrated on this thread but at the same time Caboose should have known better. As an admin you should never aggravate a situation, it is always better to defuse a problem than to let it explode. Caboose clearly made things worse but as mentioned before, this is a grey area. There is no way to prove that there were verbal warnings and at the same time there is no way to prove there weren't. Because of this I say that the ban stays and Caboose gets a final warning.

Damn, people beat me to my points xD

However, we already have enough proof to show that Caboose initiated the entire situation through actions he knew were breaking the rules.

Caboose was an innocent
Epic was the Detective

Caboose had literally no reason to follow Epic. Upon the very first warning Caboose should have left Epic alone, instead he continued to follow him. Epic gave a second warning to stop following him. However, Caboose continued to follow him, solely for baiting.

There was no reason for an innocent to follow the detective after the first warning unless you're planning to have them kill you.

I believe Epic when he says he gave a final verbal warning (Which shouldn't have been necessary) Before opening fire.

Now for further evidence look at the time for the damage.
Caboose killed Epic literally less than a second after Epic began to fire.

You know what that tells me? Caboose had his crosshairs on Epic the entire fucking time, waiting for his chance to shoot. The moment Epic began to fire, Caboose headshotted him.

You can't argue that Caboose wasn't baiting or that he didn't plan to kill Epic the moment the round began.

"L 02/20/2013 - 23:38:44: 05:28.10 - DMG:     (=CG=) Epic, King of the Noobs [detective] damaged Caboose74 [innocent] for 31 dmg
L 02/20/2013 - 23:38:45: 05:28.98 - DMG:     Caboose74 [innocent] damaged (=CG=) Epic, King of the Noobs "

Look at the time difference .89 seconds, a player can't turn let alone aim in that amount of time. The moment Epic began to fire Caboose shot him.

[Kacey]

How does me getting angry make my points any less valid? Caboose still abused.

[Christovski]

From all evidence provided, to me seems a clear-cut case of trolling by an admin, who is supposed to be preventing people from trolling. 

Even if Epic has trolled before, the response should be a proper admin punishment on the instance of the offense, not trolling him back later.

[UnknownError]

Most of the points both sides have made have been regurgitated enough, actions need to be taken. Whether it be a reduced sentence, counseling, or admin suspension. Or we're just going to sit here all day and add fuel to the flame war.

[Pillz]

How does me getting angry make my points any less valid? Caboose still abused.

Because if a person is quick to get angry and continuously acts disrespectful it just warrants the extension of a ban or whatever; not saying you are but some of the admins already think you can be troublesome, to act angry and upset more than necessary will only deter people from helping you out.

Anyway..
We have enough evidence and claims against caboose at this point; we don't really need more opinions from uninvolved parties. We should wait for Tower's response at this point. Oh damn Unknown beat me to my post.

[Tictactoe360]

From all evidence provided, to me seems a clear-cut case of trolling by an admin, who is supposed to be preventing people from trolling. 

Even if Epic has trolled before, the response should be a proper admin punishment on the instance of the offense, not trolling him back later.

I believe that Caboose should receive some form of punishment for this clear case of trolling. Not only as an admin but as a player.

He should know well enough that he was completely in the wrong and he only made it worse by using his admin in a completely unfair and inappropriate way.


However, I believe Epic should receive punishment for his apparent misbehavior. Apparently everyone here and their dog has witnessed Epic prop kill people which 1) Makes him an extreme asshole and 2) Makes him someone who's been allowed to get away with a lot of bullshit.

If everyone here is aware he prop kills and secondly he's admitted to doing it on several occasion. I believe a very strict penalty should be place on him should he even consider doing it again.

Perhaps something as harsh as a week ban if he's caught prop-killing even once. Should he continue, up it to two weeks and finally a permaban.

In my opinion PropKilling is the worst possible rule you can break in TTT not only does it ruin the round for the person you teamkilled, but it's cowardly. The person teamkilling uses a fault in the system to hide behind and avoid punishment.

What we have here is a rare opportunity to make a clear example of a prop-killer who has been shown to constantly do it.
 

[IsYn Wooley]

How does me getting angry make my points any less valid? Caboose still abused.

It doesn't make the points any less valid.

But as cadaver said. You should be more mature about this. your OP paints a doom and gloom picture about CG. your beef is with Caboose. If you really felt that strongly about it. Ether you would have made an official abuse thread, or you would have taken a side bar with a CL or HA.

But no, you chose to expose the wound and throw salt in it. That is why some of us are sitting back and going "this ass".

Nothing but the truth,

My take on this: An innocent never has a right to kill a Detective. We only bend the rules on this after a Det has killed 5 or so innocents immediately at the start of a round and it is blatantly obvious he is trolling.

Admins: If you have a problem with a player...even a regular. You need to document it, you need to discuss it. There needs to be reports of it on record. YOU DO NOT go out of your way to make the player have a bad time on the server.  This negatively impacts the game play for EVERYONE. With this thread it also impacts our community. This is in a way a personal attack. The two of you have both personally attacked one another. This too is against our rules.

Two wrongs do not make a right. I feel like this was more of a payback scenario that played out here.(In game I mean)


-Wooley

[Kacey]

Which is why I'm not going to do it anymore. I understand it is dickish. Ive learner.my.lesson and will cease propkilling when I am unbanned. However I am still not giving up on action being taken against Caboose if possible.

[TowerSheep]

To anyone on any CG server: If you see abuse get proof. If it happens daily it shouldn't be that hard, don't wait for it to get out of hand. The HA's / CL's do not know everything that happens on the server, help us and yourself.

Caboose: If you're going to follow someone don't complain when they shoot you. I know Epic and he never shuts up so he more than likely is telling the trust about the verbal warning. You were following him to bait him into killing you, which is NOT rdm. Your reaction time also tells me you knew he was gonna start shooting and were already aiming at his head. You are suspended from Admin for a week.

Epic: I've seen you prop kill, I have had to tell you to stop multiple times. At this point be happy I'm keeping your week ban, you're well beyond the scope of mass rdm. Killing pre-round is still rdm. However seeing that you were being mistreated I'm not going to up the ban to a perma. Your week ban stays.