Piracy and hypocrisy

[SkiesAhoy]

Is it hypocritical for people to condemn everyday thievery, such as car theft or shop lift, and then proceed to download the entire discography of Miley Cirus with torrents?

We can agree that theft is not necessarily the same as piracy, since theft involves removal of the original. Piracy merely creates a copy while leaving the original intact. However, enabling the copying of a single file thousands of times can be probably more damaging economically than single theft.

What are your opinions in the matter? Can piracy be justified? Is society largely hypocritical in this sort of matters?

[Cortez (Mr. T. FOO!)]

I do believe that it is hypocritical but most people don't even consider it a law because it's almost never enforced unless the pirated content is sold. People understand that there is risk in stealing physical things but when you steal digital content there is none.

[Inject OH 4]

Is it hypocritical for people to condemn everyday thievery, such as car theft or shop lift, and then proceed to download the entire discography of Miley Cirus with torrents?

We can agree that theft is not necessarily the same as piracy, since theft involves removal of the original. Piracy merely creates a copy while leaving the original intact. However, enabling the copying of a single file thousands of times can be probably more damaging economically than single theft.

What are your opinions in the matter? Can piracy be justified? Is society largely hypocritical in this sort of matters?

Side note, I've legitimately payed for all the Miley Cyrus music I have on itunes

1.25 per song or something.

[Finniespin]

Without piracy the music wasn't really going to be a great thing. Sure it would sell more.
But what about the "mouth to mouth", The ones who could not play the music could not discuss about it.
Thus, making viral items more hard to accomplish.

What if Youtube and VEVO and all those music companies didn't make a deal.
People listen to PSY now endlessly, Look what a viral video it became. Because it was free on Youtube, they possibly made more money if piracy was strictly enforced.

Moral of the story, you never know. But right now, everything seems fine. The economy seems fine.
And highest of all, those music companies are removing their tears with paper money, Billions.

[SkiesAhoy]

And highest of all, those music companies are removing their tears with paper money, Billions.

The point of the ultimate benefit is a good one and probably true to an extent, but I'd be wary with statements such as the above.

Many people seem to have this Robin Hood perspective, were stealing from the rich suddenly becomes a legitimate and morally valid action. Stealing from the rich is, in a way, just as bad as stealing from the poor. It's stealing. The fact that record companies have billions of dollars does not grant anyone the right to steal from them.

Side note, I've legitimately payed for all the Miley Cyrus music I have on itunes

1.25 per song or something.

I was certain of this loool  oh inject

[Dante]

Without piracy the music wasn't really going to be a great thing. Sure it would sell more.
But what about the "mouth to mouth", The ones who could not play the music could not discuss about it.
Thus, making viral items more hard to accomplish.

What if Youtube and VEVO and all those music companies didn't make a deal.
People listen to PSY now endlessly, Look what a viral video it became. Because it was free on Youtube, they possibly made more money if piracy was strictly enforced.

Moral of the story, you never know. But right now, everything seems fine. The economy seems fine.
And highest of all, those music companies are removing their tears with paper money, Billions.

[CamperStrike]

And highest of all, those music companies are removing their tears with paper money, Billions.

The point of the ultimate benefit is a good one and probably true to an extent, but I'd be wary with statements such as the above.

Many people seem to have this Robin Hood perspective, were stealing from the rich suddenly becomes a legitimate and morally valid action. Stealing from the rich is, in a way, just as bad as stealing from the poor. It's stealing. The fact that record companies have billions of dollars does not grant anyone the right to steal from them.

Side note, I've legitimately payed for all the Miley Cyrus music I have on itunes

1.25 per song or something.

I was certain of this loool  oh inject

You're forgetting about the fact that stealing != pirating.

[Old Crow]

Video games piracy: Hell no. Its one of the major reason why we are getting some crap games aka MW series. When you pirate games it leads to lost sales and alot of lost money, one of the major reasons why there are alot of companies that make console only games. Look what happened to the Witcher and Witcher 2, they were pirated more then they sold, its a great RPG made by people that actually care about doing something new, and there is a great chance that because of all the lost sales they will not be making a third one.

other forums: Meh, most of the rest (movies, music, vids) make their money elsewhere like concerts and at the theatres, because those experiences cant be replicated at home. Sure they lose sales because people will dl their stuff but they still make a tidy sum from legit fans that buy movies or music. I do not do it because I just think its stupid to pirate something, just a personal belief, it helps having enough money to buy dvd's once in a while, so If i were not as good off as I am maybe I would look at it differently.

[Leomire]

Video games piracy: Hell no. Its one of the major reason why we are getting some crap games aka MW series. When you pirate games it leads to lost sales and alot of lost money, one of the major reasons why there are alot of companies that make console only games. Look what happened to the Witcher and Witcher 2, they were pirated more then they sold, its a great RPG made by people that actually care about doing something new, and there is a great chance that because of all the lost sales they will not be making a third one.

From what I've seen/heard they are already making a third game. If you aren't for one form how can you justify supporting other forms of piracy? I personally think some people just can't afford to get every experience.

[Old Crow]

Video games piracy: Hell no. Its one of the major reason why we are getting some crap games aka MW series. When you pirate games it leads to lost sales and alot of lost money, one of the major reasons why there are alot of companies that make console only games. Look what happened to the Witcher and Witcher 2, they were pirated more then they sold, its a great RPG made by people that actually care about doing something new, and there is a great chance that because of all the lost sales they will not be making a third one.

From what I've seen/heard they are already making a third game. If you aren't for one form how can you justify supporting other forms of piracy? I personally think some people just can't afford to get every experience.

the examples of going to the movies or a concert, people can make money off of that. You can't do that for a video game, you have to buy it, rent it or pirate it. They only make money off of one source, which is buying games. Don't buy games, look forward to putting budding companies under. Yeah sure EA and Activation won't get that hurt, but if the developers under them don't make sales, they ax them like the devs for Prototype or Pandemic studios.

moral of the story is: If you want Modern Warefare 20, continue to put people that want to make actual games like the studio behind Witcher, out of business by piracy

[Leomire]

Video games piracy: Hell no. Its one of the major reason why we are getting some crap games aka MW series. When you pirate games it leads to lost sales and alot of lost money, one of the major reasons why there are alot of companies that make console only games. Look what happened to the Witcher and Witcher 2, they were pirated more then they sold, its a great RPG made by people that actually care about doing something new, and there is a great chance that because of all the lost sales they will not be making a third one.

From what I've seen/heard they are already making a third game. If you aren't for one form how can you justify supporting other forms of piracy? I personally think some people just can't afford to get every experience.

the examples of going to the movies or a concert, people can make money off of that. You can't do that for a video game, you have to buy it, rent it or pirate it. They only make money off of one source, which is buying games. Don't buy games, look forward to putting budding companies under. Yeah sure EA and Activation won't get that hurt, but if the developers under them don't make sales, they ax them like the devs for Prototype or Pandemic studios.

moral of the story is: If you want Modern Warefare 20, continue to put people that want to make actual games like the studio behind Witcher, out of business by piracy

Not everyone was meant to make it.

[Old Crow]

Video games piracy: Hell no. Its one of the major reason why we are getting some crap games aka MW series. When you pirate games it leads to lost sales and alot of lost money, one of the major reasons why there are alot of companies that make console only games. Look what happened to the Witcher and Witcher 2, they were pirated more then they sold, its a great RPG made by people that actually care about doing something new, and there is a great chance that because of all the lost sales they will not be making a third one.

From what I've seen/heard they are already making a third game. If you aren't for one form how can you justify supporting other forms of piracy? I personally think some people just can't afford to get every experience.

the examples of going to the movies or a concert, people can make money off of that. You can't do that for a video game, you have to buy it, rent it or pirate it. They only make money off of one source, which is buying games. Don't buy games, look forward to putting budding companies under. Yeah sure EA and Activation won't get that hurt, but if the developers under them don't make sales, they ax them like the devs for Prototype or Pandemic studios.

moral of the story is: If you want Modern Warefare 20, continue to put people that want to make actual games like the studio behind Witcher, out of business by piracy

Not everyone was meant to make it.

Yes true, but there are lots of good game developers and companies that deserve our money, yet they are the ones that get stolen from. The point I'm trying to make is that it stifles new IP's and completely reinforces the idea to just make dumb, easy shooters or other shallow games, and if one is successful to make relatively the same game over and over. It is the entire reason that PC was the worst platform for a while until basically Steam created their awesomeness that is their store.

[CamperStrike]

Video games piracy: Hell no. Its one of the major reason why we are getting some crap games aka MW series. When you pirate games it leads to lost sales and alot of lost money, one of the major reasons why there are alot of companies that make console only games. Look what happened to the Witcher and Witcher 2, they were pirated more then they sold, its a great RPG made by people that actually care about doing something new, and there is a great chance that because of all the lost sales they will not be making a third one.

other forums: Meh, most of the rest (movies, music, vids) make their money elsewhere like concerts and at the theatres, because those experiences cant be replicated at home. Sure they lose sales because people will dl their stuff but they still make a tidy sum from legit fans that buy movies or music. I do not do it because I just think its stupid to pirate something, just a personal belief, it helps having enough money to buy dvd's once in a while, so If i were not as good off as I am maybe I would look at it differently.

(wow, who the fuck thought auto-unlogging automatically after a while was a good idea? I lost a huge text because of that, so I'm going to try to sum it up because I'm too lazy to retype it all... seriously  )

Do you honestly believe Activision keeps rehashing the same game over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over because they're losing sales to piracy? Also, the Modern Warfare (or even all 'recent' COD games) series is famous because it breaks sales records ALL THE TIME. Seriously, was that sarcasm or...?

The second statement is also not necessarely true. What if a person had no money in the first place to buy the product and if pirating was not available that person would NEVER get the product? Not a lost sale. Also, nowadays you have thousands of ways to check if a game is decent or not, including YT videos, reviews (even though they aren't very trustworthy, still), demos, etc. Most people just use piracy as a form to test the game before buying it. Don't believe me? Just go to any private tracker torrenting site and ask around. I'm not gonna say which website because you know how fast the thread can be derailed and sometimes even deleted in CG when something illegal is being discussed.

Also again, not necessarely true... most companies prefer making games console simply because it's much easier and 'safer'. Most companies also do not risk porting to the PC because they're too dumb to make a good port; "hey guyse, let's make a port to the PC that's exactly like the game on the console, with the FPS capped at 45, with a shitty low resolution, with almost no graphical options, with no dedicated servers (when there's multiplayer)", etc etc, then it sells like shit because fortunately PC gamers are a tad smarter than console gamers then they blame it on piracy and decide to simply not port games to the PC anymore.

The last statement from the last paragraph is half-true. ALMOST ALL games are pirated more than bought. There's nothing alarming about that specific case. Keep in mind that some who pirate do so to test the game first to buy on a later date. These numbers mean almost nothing.

And why do you think movies keep being on made despite being the number #2 pirated thing in all of the industries (#1 being music, which I prefer not to address)? You just answered it. It can't be replicated (yet) at home, and most people are too dumb to pirate it (keep in mind I'm not implying everyone who don't pirate is dumb). Also the fact that Hollywood is (filthy) rich.

And again, you're confusing stuff. A pirated copy does not imply in a lost sale.

Really, piracy is way more complex than "we lost X money because Y people pirated it". Pirating a product can mean a lot of things about you (and the company who's selling). What about those products that people would never be able to acquire other through pirating, or in third world countries where it's simply not worth all the hassle? In a lot of cases you even GET HINDERED WHEN YOU BUY THE PRODUCT (cough cough DRM). Most of the times it comes to that; What are the advantages of buying the product, if at all?

It's all a matter of service. Just look up the last interview Gabe Newell gave about piracy and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

[Blackllama]

I try really hard to purchase from all developers and musicians I feel deserve the money.  If I'm playing their game or listening to their music, they probably deserve my money.

That is only if I like the company, other companies, like EA, I have no issue with robbing although it is wrong.  In a lot of these cases I feel I wouldn't be playing the game unless I pirated it, as in it's not worth the price.  I feel they are still getting someting out of it however, if someone is playing their game for free as opposed to not playing it at all.

Also, I do not feel piracy is hypocrisy in the sense of stealing.  When you steal, you steal from the person who purchased it.  When you pirate something, you duplicate it and take away potential money from the seller.  It is a different thing.  But I am still a hypocrite.  I'm very selective with who it is okay to pirate from and who it's not.  If you pirate EA, good for you.  If you pirate bastion, you're a horrible person.

[Cortez (Mr. T. FOO!)]

Keep in mind that you can pirate games for consoles too and admitting that you do pirate is breaking da rules.