Ban Appeal

[El-Kwaurtzo]

I guess you people are forgetting something,

Kwaurtz was banned multiple times, and the last one was PERMA because of the multiple infractions.
The entire point of a perma ban is so that it is PERMANENT. Pretty straight forward, the only reason this ban should ever be appealed is if the reciever of the ban felt it was given in injustice, which it wasn't. Now, I have sympathy for Kwaurtz, I do, if he was only banned for say, a year, i'd agree to give him another chance. But that is not the case, he was permanently banned, and therefor should NOT be un-banned. This whole 'give him another chance' thing doesn't fly with me, he's had plenty of chances, and plenty of times he's claimed to change. Nothing has happened. From my personal experience with communities, I have found that people who troll, are going to troll, people who WANT power, are going to find some way to it, regardless of how hard on him we are. I've had good friends, turn on my because they had 'changed' but eventually fell back down to their old level when they got comfortable.

I'm sorry Kwuartz, but i'm going to have to say no. CG needs to stand by it's perma-bans.

(Oh, Caesar, the majority of people we perma-ban DO come running back after a while, and asked to be unbanned, Kwuartz doesn't have the balls you think, in fact, NO body on here does, it's the internet. Not a testicular mass contest)

I was never banned multiple times. You're pulling facts out of the void on this one. I've been removed from admin before, but never was I banned. I went straight to permaban, so as far as bans are concerned, there wasn't multiple chances, this would be the first redemption from a ban. As for power, if you would read, I'm not here to run for admin, I'm here to play games with people I know. I sat on vent the past two days and I played some games with some of the guys there, I even reinstalled killing floor because someone on vent had asked me to. Sure, I've said I've changed in the past, but I wasn't previously exiled for a couple of months, I was merely removed or had resigned from admin.

So please, if you are going to come and argue against my appeal, do not pull some random fact or statistic from the nether. I was never banned, this was the first time.

And for a point of clairification, Caesar has been gaming with me for a while on Heroes of Newerth, if anyone could vouch for my new attitude towards things, it would be him.

I didn't pull it out of void, many people have said you have been banned multiple times, many different people on different occasions. And if that didn't happen, i'm sorry, I was ill informed. The thing about power wasn't that you were here for power, but that people tend to go back to their old ways even after change. Rarely does a person actually change, and when I say rarely, I mean almost never, especially since this is the internet. The majority of the time, people just put on their mask and pretend to be different until people are comfortable with them, then they take the mask off.

Just because your attitude is different doesn't mean you are, it also doesn't mean that you will stay in that attitude.

My point is, in short, unless the ban was unjustly given, it should remain, since it was a permanent ban, meaning you will never be un-banned. Nothing is stopping you from playing with CG members, but as far as using our servers, and using our ventrilo, you SHOULD be banned from that due to past events. Just because you have changed doesn't mean you didn't do the things you did in the past, they're still there, and still count.

Personally, I have nothing against you Kwaurtz, we bucked heads every now and then, but I could care less if you were here. But I am a strong believer in consistency, and following a set out structure. If we can't even keep a ban on a single person when they come back and claim to have changed, what reason did we ban them for in the first place?

I'm not saying my ban is unjust, but it doesn't say that the ban appeal's section is about appealing unfair bans. It has been used in the past to appeal bans that were just as well. I'm here to do just that. I'm not asking for much, just an opportunity to play on a server that I had dedicated a lot to at one point in time. I don't have to wear the CG tag if its not wanted. CG servers are the best, and have been, because of its community. I just want a chance to return to that.

[Zukuto]

I guess you people are forgetting something,

Kwaurtz was banned multiple times, and the last one was PERMA because of the multiple infractions.
The entire point of a perma ban is so that it is PERMANENT. Pretty straight forward, the only reason this ban should ever be appealed is if the reciever of the ban felt it was given in injustice, which it wasn't. Now, I have sympathy for Kwaurtz, I do, if he was only banned for say, a year, i'd agree to give him another chance. But that is not the case, he was permanently banned, and therefor should NOT be un-banned. This whole 'give him another chance' thing doesn't fly with me, he's had plenty of chances, and plenty of times he's claimed to change. Nothing has happened. From my personal experience with communities, I have found that people who troll, are going to troll, people who WANT power, are going to find some way to it, regardless of how hard on him we are. I've had good friends, turn on my because they had 'changed' but eventually fell back down to their old level when they got comfortable.

I'm sorry Kwuartz, but i'm going to have to say no. CG needs to stand by it's perma-bans.

(Oh, Caesar, the majority of people we perma-ban DO come running back after a while, and asked to be unbanned, Kwuartz doesn't have the balls you think, in fact, NO body on here does, it's the internet. Not a testicular mass contest)

I was never banned multiple times. You're pulling facts out of the void on this one. I've been removed from admin before, but never was I banned. I went straight to permaban, so as far as bans are concerned, there wasn't multiple chances, this would be the first redemption from a ban. As for power, if you would read, I'm not here to run for admin, I'm here to play games with people I know. I sat on vent the past two days and I played some games with some of the guys there, I even reinstalled killing floor because someone on vent had asked me to. Sure, I've said I've changed in the past, but I wasn't previously exiled for a couple of months, I was merely removed or had resigned from admin.

So please, if you are going to come and argue against my appeal, do not pull some random fact or statistic from the nether. I was never banned, this was the first time.

And for a point of clairification, Caesar has been gaming with me for a while on Heroes of Newerth, if anyone could vouch for my new attitude towards things, it would be him.

I didn't pull it out of void, many people have said you have been banned multiple times, many different people on different occasions. And if that didn't happen, i'm sorry, I was ill informed. The thing about power wasn't that you were here for power, but that people tend to go back to their old ways even after change. Rarely does a person actually change, and when I say rarely, I mean almost never, especially since this is the internet. The majority of the time, people just put on their mask and pretend to be different until people are comfortable with them, then they take the mask off.

Just because your attitude is different doesn't mean you are, it also doesn't mean that you will stay in that attitude.

My point is, in short, unless the ban was unjustly given, it should remain, since it was a permanent ban, meaning you will never be un-banned. Nothing is stopping you from playing with CG members, but as far as using our servers, and using our ventrilo, you SHOULD be banned from that due to past events. Just because you have changed doesn't mean you didn't do the things you did in the past, they're still there, and still count.

Personally, I have nothing against you Kwaurtz, we bucked heads every now and then, but I could care less if you were here. But I am a strong believer in consistency, and following a set out structure. If we can't even keep a ban on a single person when they come back and claim to have changed, what reason did we ban them for in the first place?

I'm not saying my ban is unjust, but it doesn't say that the ban appeal's section is about appealing unfair bans. It has been used in the past to appeal bans that were just as well. I'm here to do just that. I'm not asking for much, just an opportunity to play on a server that I had dedicated a lot to at one point in time. I don't have to wear the CG tag if its not wanted. CG servers are the best, and have been, because of its community. I just want a chance to return to that.

Although people have been un-banned for apologizing in the past, it shouldn't happen any more. The only reason somebody shouldn't serve their punishment is if they were punished unfairly. I'm sorry, in my honest opinion, you should stay banned.

Fortunately for you, I do not make the decisions, I only provide input. It is ultimately up to the CLs, and who know's which direction they will go.

[Cadaver]

Ok.
After much discussion, and opinions tossed to me from several members, and the CG leadership, this is the situation:  We have requested Kwaurtz abide by the permaban. 

Although he may seem to be changing his ways, there is still too much hurt, anger, and damage done here for him to get membership back.  Too many long term members have issue with the ban removed.  So. It stays.

I wish him well, and hope he finds a new community to be in. 

I request the members here do not interfere with his ability to find a new place to be, and request they leave him alone.

If anyone wants additional info, or have concerns, see me in Vent.