Origin of Life

[crypto]

No evidence? That explains the 1,000,000's of hours of paranormal footage and audio recordings. Not to mention the enormous amount of personal stories and claims of personal experiences. Now there is not much telling us what exactly these entities are, but it's more likely that they are, in fact, existent. I'd appreciate it if you didn't troll and take out your anger on religion here. This is a group effort to educate each other which what knowledge we have, not an out lashing with the "fantasy" and "flying spaghetti monster" comments. You make it sound like you know everything there is to know about life, it makes you seem arrogant and distasteful. Also if you read my post, my beliefs aren't random and do contain logic.

Hang on while I cut out the parts that don't have anything to do with whether or not my point is correct.

No evidence? That explains the 1,000,000's of hours of paranormal footage and audio recordings. Not to mention the enormous amount of personal stories and claims of personal experiences. Now there is not much telling us what exactly these entities are, but it's more likely that they are, in fact, existent. I'd appreciate it if you didn't troll and take out your anger on religion here. This is a group effort to educate each other which what knowledge we have, not an out lashing with the "fantasy" and "flying spaghetti monster" comments. You make it sound like you know everything there is to know about life, it makes you seem arrogant and distasteful. Also if you read my post, my beliefs aren't random and do contain logic.

Right.

No evidence? That explains the 1,000,000's of hours of paranormal footage and audio recordings. Not to mention the enormous amount of personal stories and claims of personal experiences. Now there is not much telling us what exactly these entities are, but it's more likely that they are, in fact, existent.

There are countless hoaxes, errors, natural anomalies, delusional idiots, gullible idiots, and insane or otherwise mentally handicapped people in the world. Obscure footage and audio recordings, especially the phenomenally forgeable latter, are not scientific evidence. The fact that there is a lot of wrongness in the world doesn't make wrongness any less wrong. For every true statement there are literally infinite false variations.

Also if you read my post, my beliefs aren't random and do contain logic.

Okay, let's go back.

We really, don't, know, what the fuck goes on beyond what we can see.

Gaps in our knowledge of the universe are the reason for and purpose of science.

For all we know, at some point, the universe does in fact, stop. (As opposed to the possibility it doesn't ever stop) I highly, HIIIIGHLY, doubt, it all ends right there.

Study up.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the amount of usable energy in a closed system (the universe) is decreasing. In layman's terms, that states that the universe is slowly coming to an end over time. So it did have a beginning. Aristotle's causality (cause and effect) says that every effect must have a cause. This is to not say the Big bang didn't occur, but rather, that it must of had something or some being (God) make it happen. So If the big bang could occur, and a being (God) is capable of doing such a thing.

There are many scientific theories on the beginning and end of the universe. Do not resort to supernatural answers until all other options are exhausted. That's the mistake ancient polytheists made when they thought worship of the rain god pleased him and led him to cause rainstorms. That's the mistake Christians made when they thought the earth, as the crown jewel of God's creation, was the center of the universe, and when they rejected overwhelming evidence of evolution. The list of religious beliefs rendered false by scientific discovery goes on and on, and it will continue to grow with the passage of time.
 

Then it is a plausible to consider that the creation story has credibility to it and even that the Big Bang was part of the creation story. In Genesis, it says the first day water was formed [Jorgen brought up hydrogen being composed in the start of earth.] Science's explanation of land forming, then plants and animals goes hand in hand with God's creation.

How do you know water wasn't said to have been formed on the first day because every human since the birth of the species knew that water was crucial to life, or for some other symbolic reason? How do the hilariously numerous scientific inaccuracies present in the Book of Genesis, among other parts of the Bible, figure into your theory of metaphor for scientific truth? And why would God resort to metaphor in the first place? If that was his intention then he was deceiving his followers by using extraordinarily complex and difficult-to-interpret imagery to divert them from the raw truth.

[Mindtrixx]

Things like this about how life started are completly retarded. :\  YOUR NEVER GONNA FIND OUT!!!!

unless some aliens drop down and are like "pfft guys we did this  btw Jesus was a space zombie"

[Jorgen]

I know it had something to with electromagnetic shit, and like, lightning. Me and my friend "Kiyka" were talking about this shit once a while back and he was reading it to me from the internet and were talking about it.

do you mean early magnetic poles?
and warmth coliding with cold is known indeed, making lightning.

the creation (if we see the scientific way) was a REALLY VIOLENT one =P
earth is like a post rape victim, and now we are raping her again, quite sad actually.

[Dante]

This is turning into another religion thread. Lock it for all our sanity.

[crypto]

If you don't want debate then get the fuck out of the Debate Forum; no one is forcing you to read it.

[myLord]

How do the hilariously numerous scientific inaccuracies present in the Book of Genesis, among other parts of the Bible...

Quotes of these "errors" would be much appreciated.
Actually, scratch that.  Did it ever occur to you that science is fallible? If you agree, then saying that the Bible contains errors according to something that contains errors itself is illogical in my eyes.
Matthew 7:3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" This is probably a terrible example, but imagine that you are science, now imagine that your brother is the Bible and that the speck of sawdust isn't really there but is only being perceived by you due to the plank in your eye which is man's utter foolishness and willful separation from God.  THAT is the point I'm making here.
2 Peter 3:5 "But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed..."
Psalm 14:1 "The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. 
You think you don't believe in God because of how smart you think you are?  Right there is the reason, man's corrupt heart.  Which came about how?  The Fall, of course.  Which came about how?! MAN'S FREE WILL, CORRUPT HEART, AND WAY OF THINKING!!  To explain the last part of that sentence, man tries to compare the Bible to science (as you have so clearly demonstrated) instead of comparing science to the Bible. 

Science is the study of the natural, not the supernatural, because the supernatural is a figment of the imagination unsupported by a single piece of evidence. Belief in the Christian God is no different than belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Just because your fantasy is impossible to disprove doesn't mean it should be taken seriously. There's no logic behind randomly choosing to subscribe to one superstition while rejecting however many others the human species has concocted over the course of its existence.

1.  The supernatural is not made up, anything man thinks is unexplainable (creation, the existence of God, etc.) he dubs as supernatural.  Creation has been explained, and God's existence has been revealed to us (but not explained further beyond "He was and He always will be.") through the Bible, which has yet to be found to contain errors.

2.  Um...randomly?  Do people just spin a wheel in their heads with all the religions on them and go with whatever it lands on?  A definition of superstition: "A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance." 

Evolutionist - "See? God has nothing to do with nature because it came into existence because of a few molecules that thought they both looked hot hooked up and made humans."

Creationist - "God has a lot to do with nature, He created it." 

E - "Well I think God used evolution to make nature."

C - "If He used evolution, which took billions of years, then what do you think about this?  Genesis 1:8 "...And there was evening, and there was morning--the second day."  If God created during a six day (morning to evening) period, how do you translate that into billions of years?"

E - "Because of this.  2 Peter 3:8 "But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."  So God must have used thousands of years to make the earth."

C - "That verse is explaining that God is not bound by a dimension that we are: time."

E - "I don't care!  I'll never believe what you believe because I think I'm smarter than God!"

/endlengthyargument



This might be an utterly failed attempt at defending my faith, but I'm still learning and I wanted to try out these arguments on some adamant (not meaning that in a harsh way) atheists/evolutionists/the like... So you guys could consider yourselves test subjects.
Also, please don't interpret anything I said as bashing or an attack on you guys and your beliefs.

[crypto]

Quotes of these "errors" would be much appreciated.

If you can't find the glaring scientific inaccuracies in the Bible then I don't know why I bother arguing with you.

Actually, scratch that.  Did it ever occur to you that science is fallible? If you agree, then saying that the Bible contains errors according to something that contains errors itself is illogical in my eyes.

Scientific theories may be fallible. Science is not fallible. Until they are disproved, tested and approved theories are held to be true.

Matthew 7:3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" This is probably a terrible example, but imagine that you are science, now imagine that your brother is the Bible and that the speck of sawdust isn't really there but is only being perceived by you due to the plank in your eye which is man's utter foolishness and willful separation from God.  THAT is the point I'm making here.
2 Peter 3:5 "But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed..."
Psalm 14:1 "The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. 
You think you don't believe in God because of how smart you think you are?  Right there is the reason, man's corrupt heart.  Which came about how?  The Fall, of course.  Which came about how?! MAN'S FREE WILL, CORRUPT HEART, AND WAY OF THINKING!!  To explain the last part of that sentence, man tries to compare the Bible to science (as you have so clearly demonstrated) instead of comparing science to the Bible.

None of these quotes rebut my actual points (unsurprising; theists tend not to sufficiently rebut any point made by atheists), but hey, congratulations! You just pointed out some of the many instances where your precious God condemns freethinking. Thank you for reminding the us how much of an iron-fisted tyrant he is.

With respect to your commentary on the first quote, the mere possibility that atheists was wrong is not even remotely a legitimate argument against our conclusions.

1.  The supernatural is not made up, anything man thinks is unexplainable (creation, the existence of God, etc.) he dubs as supernatural.  Creation has been explained, and God's existence has been revealed to us (but not explained further beyond "He was and He always will be.") through the Bible, which has yet to be found to contain errors.

Superstitions use the supernatural to answer the questions that science has not yet found an answer to. There is a long and deep history of superstitions diminishing with scientific advances. You ("you" generally) are stupidly jumping to absurd and unsupported conclusions just because you don't have answers immediately at hand. The fact that something is unexplainable does not give you the license to shit out whatever fantasy you find most appealing. Superstitions are a human construct. The supernatural is a device functioning within that human construct.

2.  Um...randomly?  Do people just spin a wheel in their heads with all the religions on them and go with whatever it lands on?  A definition of superstition: "A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance."

Yes, RANDOMLY. One person is RANDOMLY born in the United States and so is RANDOMLY a Christian. Another person is RANDOMLY born in Iran and so is RANDOMLY a Muslim. Another person is RANDOMLY born in India and so is RANDOMLY a Hindu. Another person was born in ancient Greece two and a half millennia ago and so RANDOMLY yearned to suck Zeus' dick. Then, if you DO consider conversion to another religion, or if, godforfuckingbid, you convert from atheism, you RANDOMLY reject one unprovable religion in favor of whichever other tickles your culturally prejudiced fancy.

Evolutionist - "See? God has nothing to do with nature because it came into existence because of a few molecules that thought they both looked hot hooked up and made humans."

Creationist - "God has a lot to do with nature, He created it." 

E - "Well I think God used evolution to make nature."

C - "If He used evolution, which took billions of years, then what do you think about this?  Genesis 1:8 "...And there was evening, and there was morning--the second day."  If God created during a six day (morning to evening) period, how do you translate that into billions of years?"

E - "Because of this.  2 Peter 3:8 "But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."  So God must have used thousands of years to make the earth."

C - "That verse is explaining that God is not bound by a dimension that we are: time."[/quote]
COOL! MORE ABSURDITY THAT HAS NO LOGICAL SUPPORT OR EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE! THANKS FOR GIVING ME FURTHER EVIDENCE THAT RELIGION IS LOLOLOL.

E - "I don't care!  I'll never believe what you believe because I think I'm smarter than God!"

Do not fucking mischaracterize atheists with "I don't care" when the crux of the entire debate (deciding whether or not to be—how do I say this without offending you?—rational) is staring you in the face. If you DON'T know the answer's staring you in the face, then you need a fucking high school–level education in science and theology.

This might be an utterly failed attempt at defending my faith

Also, please don't interpret anything I said as bashing or an attack on you guys and your beliefs.

And I quote: "'I don't care! I'll never believe what you believe because I think I'm smarter than God!'" Looks like an attack to me. Don't be afraid to "attack" someone else's beliefs with every ounce of rhetorical force you can muster. It's a debate thread in an online gaming forum. You're not going to hurt anyone's feelings. If someone does manage to get his feelings hurt here then it's probably more his problem than yours. Attacking is a lot better than attacking and then begging us not to interpret attacks as attacks.

[Mudkipz]

Our whole universe was in a hot dense state, then nearly 14 billion years ago expansion started... WAIT!
The Earth began to cool, autotrophs began to drool, neaderthals developed tool, we built a wall (we built the pyramids) MATH, SCIENCE, HISTORY, unravelling the mystery, it all started with the BIG BANG(BANG!)

That is my explination of how life started... The Big Bang theory Theme Song

[Holy]

If you can't find the glaring scientific inaccuracies in the Bible then I don't know why I bother arguing with you.

An excuse to not answer the given question, as I too am curious seeing that as said before, science can only explain the natural.

Scientific theories may be fallible. Science is not fallible. Until they are disproved, tested and approved theories are held to be true.

Theories are falliable.. good good.. science is not falliable.. a matter of opinion, but I like it. The last sentence is wrong. "Until they are disproved, tested and supported theories are more likely to be true."

None of these quotes rebut my actual points (unsurprising; theists tend not to sufficiently rebut any point made by atheists), but hey, congratulations! You just pointed out some of the many instances where your precious God condemns freethinking. Thank you for reminding the us how much of an iron-fisted tyrant he is.

With respect to your commentary on the first quote, the mere possibility that atheists was wrong is not even remotely a legitimate argument against our conclusions.

Not sure what this has to do with the origin of life.

Superstitions use the supernatural to answer the questions that science has not yet found an answer to. There is a long and deep history of superstitions diminishing with scientific advances. You ("you" generally) are stupidly jumping to absurd and unsupported conclusions just because you don't have answers immediately at hand. The fact that something is unexplainable does not give you the license to shit out whatever fantasy you find most appealing. Superstitions are a human construct. The supernatural is a device functioning within that human construct.

It's extremely unlikely that science, study of natural, will never be able to explain the supernatural. Beyond sentence one is just bickering until you get to sentence five which is a true statement, well the explanation of what a superstition is man made anyway. Real supernatural events are in no way, shape, or form conceived by the human mind or brought on upon by a human. If it were, it would be a natural prank or natural lie and not supernatural.

Yes, RANDOMLY. One person is RANDOMLY born in the United States and so is RANDOMLY a Christian. Another person is RANDOMLY born in Iran and so is RANDOMLY a Muslim. Another person is RANDOMLY born in India and so is RANDOMLY a Hindu. Another person was born in ancient Greece two and a half millennia ago and so RANDOMLY yearned to suck Zeus' dick. Then, if you DO consider conversion to another religion, or if, godforfuckingbid, you convert from atheism, you RANDOMLY reject one unprovable religion in favor of whichever other tickles your culturally prejudiced fancy.

There are some random elements which come into play. When parents have sex, they know that it's possible for them to have a kid. If they are really trying for a kid then it is not random, it is that child's future to be a child of those parents. As far as faith, yes, parents have something to do with that. It isn't random though. Once the child grows up to.. let's say a teen, that teen is given the option to decide on it's own. It isn't random at all. Also, there are those who decide to convert.. they don't flip a coin and say, "Uh oh, it's heads today, I'm going Christian!"

COOL! MORE ABSURDITY THAT HAS NO LOGICAL SUPPORT OR EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE! THANKS FOR GIVING ME FURTHER EVIDENCE THAT RELIGION IS LOLOLOL.

If you consider that one sentence which was an example evidence, I can see where you get your "facts" from.

Do not fucking mischaracterize atheists with "I don't care" when the crux of the entire debate (deciding whether or not to be—how do I say this without offending you?—rational) is staring you in the face. If you DON'T know the answer's staring you in the face, then you need a fucking high school–level education in science and theology.

Lol, that just sounded like "You don't agree with me so you are stupid."

[myLord]

Proverbs 14:16 "A wise man fears the LORD and shuns evil, but a fool is hotheaded and reckless."
I'm sure you guys can tell what I'm trying to say by that verse alone..

[Cadaver]

Sometimes I wonder if we are a flicked booger off the finger of God.

But then, I go back to worrying about more pressing things...

[Jorgen]

I am not really a fan of people using quotes from the bible when discussing if god is realy...
By using them you are pretty much just stating to the atheists why even bother? Also by saying them you start it with the thought that he exists, when I walk into a discusson I make myself ready to hear other thoguhts.

[myLord]

If I directed this conversation into one about if He exists or not, I'm sorry.
Also, a statement that is not aimed towards the current conversation, but rather towards the main topic:
How can people believe in the big bang at all?  Since when has an explosion caused more order than disorder?  If it were true, it all would have had to have been a matter of luck.  I would like to see the "numbers" of the possibility of a cosmic explosion, or whatever, shooting planets and such into just the right spots and somehow creating life.

Ooh, look what I found: http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/Encyclopedia/03-ss5.htm
Now, I have not read over any of these articles, but I have heard a few of them from my pastor and Bible teacher.  Crypto, since I see you as being much more intelligent than me and might have a different perspective than me while reading these, please go over them and give me your thoughts.  (I meant all of that honestly, not in any way did I mean it derogatorily.)

[Jorgen]

...
big bang was a surge of energy, E=MC^2, during the big bang it happened like a sun going into a super nova fusion and so forth.
making HYDROGEN the sole reason for life
Hydrogen went into Hydrogen clouds, which when they get large enough make a innwards drag, making the Hydrogen atoms crash into eachother until they FUSE together in a process called fusion.
if you read my previous posts you'd see this

[myLord]

Sorry about that.

But, I'm still don't completely understand how fusing hydrogen atoms can form life.