Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy

[Sejo Mino]

I'm not asking to have my hand held. Let me try to make an analogy for what I mean. If you work at McDonalds and you burn a burger, the manager isn't going to hold your hand and teach you how to cook one properly. He's not going to immediately fire you, either. He's going to tell you not to burn the burgers again. That's what I'm trying to say. I've burned a few burgers, and everyone ate them without complaining. I thought the burgers were cooked just fine, but the whole time they've been crispy, and no one told me. Instead, what the manager did was take a picture of every burger that I've burned, and then at the end of the month, showed them all to me and fired me. It would have been a lot easier if he just told me I was doing wrong the first time, and then it would have all been fixed.

I was going to mention on this. Their is a difference between having 4 years of experience then having only 1 month. It is also common courtesy that if you burn something then you should more then likely remake it in MC Donald's. Also if you make a person's food burnt and then you server it and they get hurt because of such mistake then you will more then likely cause the business to get sued. 4 years is a huge difference then 1 month. In 4 years time you should know how to make the food, you should know how not to server food that is not within standards. If you are in that lazy shape that you will knowingly give out the burger anyways then it is right for the Manager to fire you. We are trying to keep a high level of expectation with everyone. Hopefully not any Half***ed work. like you said earlier that no one needs to hold your hands, if you know you did it then you should know that it is going to have consequences.

Also talking about MC Donald's got me Hungry. Laterz XP

[Billy]

I was going to mention on this. Their is a difference between having 4 years of experience then having only 1 month. It is also common courtesy that if you burn something then you should more then likely remake it in MC Donald's. Also if you make a person's food burnt and then you server it and they get hurt because of such mistake then you will more then likely cause the business to get sued. 4 years is a huge difference then 1 month. In 4 years time you should know how to make the food, you should know how not to server food that is not within standards. If you are in that lazy shape that you will knowingly give out the burger anyways then it is right for the Manager to fire you. We are trying to keep a high level of expectation with everyone. Hopefully not any Half***ed work. like you said earlier that no one needs to hold your hands, if you know you did it then you should know that it is going to have consequences.

The thing is, I do know the rules. That's not the problem here. I never broke any rules on purpose. Most of the things I did are in the "gray zone" ie. not really breaking rules but people might not like it, etc. And no one ever told me that I had complaints against me. Uh.. In analogy form: I do know how to make the burger, in this case. But I added on seasonings that some people liked -- and others didn't like. And the people that didn't like the seasonings never told me. Instead of telling me they don't like seasoning on their burgers, they stockpiled them for months and then dumped them on my head out of nowhere..

As it has already been said: MOST of this evidence is about 6 months old. I didn't break any major rules. They were minor offenses that have been tallied up that I didn't know about, or everyone seemed okay with it at the time, so I wasn't putting too much thought into it. But now that it has /finally/ been brought to my attention, I can change what I did wrong and apologize for the wrongs I've done to those people.

[Sejo Mino]

I was going to mention on this. Their is a difference between having 4 years of experience then having only 1 month. It is also common courtesy that if you burn something then you should more then likely remake it in MC Donald's. Also if you make a person's food burnt and then you server it and they get hurt because of such mistake then you will more then likely cause the business to get sued. 4 years is a huge difference then 1 month. In 4 years time you should know how to make the food, you should know how not to server food that is not within standards. If you are in that lazy shape that you will knowingly give out the burger anyways then it is right for the Manager to fire you. We are trying to keep a high level of expectation with everyone. Hopefully not any Half***ed work. like you said earlier that no one needs to hold your hands, if you know you did it then you should know that it is going to have consequences.

The thing is, I do know the rules. That's not the problem here. I never broke any rules on purpose. Most of the things I did are in the "gray zone" ie. not really breaking rules but people might not like it, etc. And no one ever told me that I had complaints against me. Uh.. In analogy form: I do know how to make the burger, in this case. But I added on seasonings that some people liked -- and others didn't like. And the people that didn't like the seasonings never told me. Instead of telling me they don't like seasoning on their burgers, they stockpiled them for months and then dumped them on my head out of nowhere..

As it has already been said: MOST of this evidence is about 6 months old. I didn't break any major rules. They were minor offenses that have been tallied up that I didn't know about, or everyone seemed okay with it at the time, so I wasn't putting too much thought into it. But now that it has /finally/ been brought to my attention, I can change what I did wrong and apologize for the wrongs I've done to those people.

The Moral of the Burger story is *Don't Add Seasonings* it might cause problems. A ton of different factors come into play. Maybe one day when serving you end up causing a person to have an allergic reaction because of a seasoning that was added. Something that was made to be what it was suppose to be but then altered without anyone knowing. This can cause problems then end up in the predicament that you are currently in. Also it would be funny to see 6 months worth of burgers getting dumped on someone.

[Billy]

Let it be noted that I was in fact not a regular admin at the time those screenshots were taken, sans the new ones involving richland/rooftops.

Also, Sejo Mino, duly noted. I will no longer season my burgers.

[Kwaurtz]

Or, heres this one. You don't get fired over minor things. You get coached initially. If the leadership failed to address this early on, its the leaderships fault. You are the ones here to guide the admins under you and set them straight. Collecting evidence without even trying to fix the problem or address it head on is a failure in leadership, a failure of your job as head admin, head admin assistant, and veteran admins to Billy. Regardless of how long he has been here, you are the people ahead of him in line, its your job to correct him when wrong, not sit here an amount a mountain of evidence which half of it doesn't really even prove anything.


This going undercover to record evidence is Wholegrain style shit, and its fucking disgusting and a majority of you should be ashamed of yourselves for not even giving Billy the time of day to address the problem with him before you jump to try and punish him.

[Christovski]

Even barring the evidence collected in such a manner, there is still the matter of the ban for RDM and leave, and the hour ban Billy received.

Just sayin'.

I don't remember many admins being banned without consequences to their admin status, whether it be suspension or whatever the HA deems fit.

Not trying to start an argument, just reminding that there is more to this than the undercover stuff.

[Old Crow]

So evidence sucks, doesn't really show much.

This entire thing has spiraled out of control. Like I said before there shouldn't be hand holding, but there should have been a previous waring for something minor like this. The fact that the evidence is six months old alone should have told you that it was minor.

HA/HAa and CL's, you guys need to review the evidence before you post it. Seems like the gun was jumped.

At this point though, Billy I'd say its safe to say that now your warned, in the worst possible way 

Only punishment I could honestly say would be like a two week suspension. Anything other then that is too much.

[Billy]

Even barring the evidence collected in such a manner, there is still the matter of the ban for RDM and leave, and the hour ban Billy received.

Just sayin'.

I don't remember many admins being banned without consequences to their admin status, whether it be suspension or whatever the HA deems fit.

Not trying to start an argument, just reminding that there is more to this than the undercover stuff.

The week ban for RDM and leave has already been discussed with crovv, the person who banned me. The RDMs involving TastyBagel and PaperClips were just goofing around between 3 people, late at night, with the explosive barrels at the bottom of Richland. And the RDM on Mayor on Rooftops wasn't really RDM. He would jump onto/run into the electric axe on purpose, while I was holding it. HerpDerpMike was on, and he saw it himself. According to crovv, he actually reported it as rdm the last time, but that was a round or two after I left, I think. So the week ban should be lifted.

As for the hour ban for glitching on rooftops, well. I have no excuse for that. I went onto the roof, killed myself and then went afk.

[Cortez (Mr. T. FOO!)]

Okay, I didn't think this thread would amount to what it has but I think that it is a good thing. You guys have shown a lot of maturity in this thread, especially you Billy, which makes me happy. I do apologize for not having sat down and talked to you about this earlier as I have been hearing complaints for some time. I asked for this thread to be made because a ton of "evidence" was shown to me yesterday that I didn't know about and I felt that there was defiantly a need for some discussion and there is. I feel that a lot of good points have come up in this thread and while there are defiantly people that feel that you should be removed, the general concensus doesn't. This includes myself. While you should have realised where you were going wrong I can't necessarily blame you for not knowing if no one tried to tell you, so I would like you to consider this thread one massive warning. Breaking the rules is NOT okay, even if it is just for kicks. It's alright to mess around with props and stuff, you just have to be smart about this. Ask yourself, "Would someone else be punished for doing this?" If the answer is yes, don't do it. As for the neglect of your responsibilities, which is the chief complaint that I've heard, the answer is simple. Just do the job that you volunteered to do.

I think you're a good player Billy and you can be a good admin. For the next while you're going to be a sort of probation, if people start coming to me with evidence of abuse, rule breaking or of you not punishing rule breakers you're privileges will be removed. Thread locked.

PS. I'm going to remove the ban as well.