Unbanning Crypto

[Christovski]

It's a New England thing.  I understand Crypto perfectly but it comes off pretty harsh to others. 

I would have suggested an unban if it was only one ban, but since it is multiple our hands are pretty well tied, I don't see how he would be unbanned.

[Dinomoto]

It has been said already a number of times, crypto was already given another chance, he blew it, twice.

[AlphaWeeaboo]

After actually pondering on this for a bit I'm really mixed.
Leaning more towards no on this though.

He's had his chances I think and when it came to what he did, it was some pretty heavy personal attacking.

[Old Crow]

It's a New England thing.  I understand Crypto perfectly but it comes off pretty harsh to others. 

I would have suggested an unban if it was only one ban, but since it is multiple our hands are pretty well tied, I don't see how he would be unbanned.

And this is where we lead into the point: Should everybody be unbanned? Should there even be permabans? How many times can somebody be banned before they are never unbanned? I feel that opens a huge can of worms.

And seriously, to put the comparison of him to Kwuartz to rest, I've seen Kwuartz get reported a couple of times, and half were not even breaking the rules, and the other half are borderline, in which case if I were to punish for that, then I would have had to punish more people then him (not lately, but during the past summer yeah).

Its also super easy to talk to Kwuartz and tell him to cut it out or tone it down. i never dealt with Crypto, but I think its easy to look at his posts and tell you he probably wasn't the same. That's all speculation on my part of course, only those that dealt with him could tell us how he was behind closed doors.

To top it all off, consider the fact that some CL's were able to personally attack people and get away with it, how come they get a free ride?

[Christovski]

Crow, that's exactly why I brought up the thing with the homophobic posts.

Some people get away with stuff, and others do not. 

We need some kind of system of accountability, I've seen shit get swept under the rug repeatedly, like trial admins getting away with things they should have lost admin for, repeat offenders never given more then a slap on the wrist because 'they weren't punished before, why punish them now?', and like you said, even at the CL level no accountability, you would think with multiple CLs they should be able to keep EACH OTHER in check.

All I'm trying to say is there's a lot of situations even the last 6 months or so where some people get punished and others don't and there's never any explanation as for why

[Yahtzee]

You have never even dealt with Crypto, granted he is a little bit before your time<3, but most of the shit he is spewing on the forums is solely him fucking around. I can vouch for the fact that he is much more favorable when you take the time to talk to him. So ill just stop the "Writing off speculation as fact" right here. All the devils advocates are trying to get across the point that we have let far worse (worse in this context being # of rules broken) people have second, third and even fourth chances at redemption just because they had more pull in the community than others. Your bias being that you and Kwaurtz are cuddle buddies 5 evar. Obviously you have never been on the receiving end of Kwaurtz's bullshit at one point or another.

And seriously, to put the comparison of him to Kwuartz to rest, I've seen Kwuartz get reported a couple of times, and half were not even breaking the rules, and the other half are borderline, in which case if I were to punish for that, then I would have had to punish more people then him (not lately, but during the past summer yeah).

Its also super easy to talk to Kwuartz and tell him to cut it out or tone it down. i never dealt with Crypto, but I think its easy to look at his posts and tell you he probably wasn't the same. That's all speculation on my part of course, only those that dealt with him could tell us how he was behind closed doors.

To top it all off, consider the fact that some CL's were able to personally attack people and get away with it, how come they get a free ride?

P.S. Back when Darkemo first had CL he used his power to get peoples IP addresses and find their Facebook profiles... We gave that a second chance...

P.S.S Your very clever remarks and carefully thought-out jabs at me whenever I come into Teamspeak and do the unspeakable sin of joining a channel your in at any given time...

[AlphaWeeaboo]

Can we tame this down a bit please? This isn't about Kwaurtz or taking jabs at each other. This is about Crypto and his unbanning.






@crow below: and Death's choice! stoopid pants.

[Old Crow]

Lol me and Kwuartz cuddlebuddys. About as much as you and Yahtzee, nothing more, nothing less. As a CL, I've seen it, but then nobody else was around, Skies was AFK, and well you know the rest. I had to make a judgement call, so I did it as fair as I could have. How many people have you seen me ban from the forums? I'd rather give the chances then when they are all used up ban, instead of banning then giving second chances...then re-banning.....etc.

Like I said I could only speculate about that, which is why I said that as opposed to stating it as if it were a fact. All I can do is go back and look at his posts, which everybody can do.

But hey, its not my choice. Its Pillz and Alphas choice.

[Yahtzee]

Crow, that's exactly why I brought up the thing with the homophobic posts.

Some people get away with stuff, and others do not. 

We need some kind of system of accountability, I've seen shit get swept under the rug repeatedly, like trial admins getting away with things they should have lost admin for, repeat offenders never given more then a slap on the wrist because 'they weren't punished before, why punish them now?', and like you said, even at the CL level no accountability, you would think with multiple CLs they should be able to keep EACH OTHER in check.

All I'm trying to say is there's a lot of situations even the last 6 months or so where some people get punished and others don't and there's never any explanation as for why

[Christovski]

The blood's in the water now.  Everyone in CG has been a dick to someone else in CG at any given time, so where do we draw the line is the real question.

So it really comes down to:
Who is in charge of determining people's intent, and determining what ACTUALLY is breaking the rules and what isn't?  Because it seems like some things people get away with are pretty bad, whereas things other people get punished for don't that bad at all (I'm speaking about this generally because it has been brought up, I understand why Crypto can't be unbanned) so really, who makes these decisions/judgements, and how are they held accountable?  There is a LOT of bias evident in this thread here, I think Alpha's post above is the only one without significant bias. 

TL;DR: some punishments over the course of CG seem pretty biased to me, and there is lots of -hopping and misinformation.  What steps are we taking/CAN be taken to ensure FAIR judgement?  Because this thread seems like a massive mess of bias to me.

[Old Crow]

I guess I would be bias, but I've already seen what Snak did when he got unbanned, so that makes me gun shy.

Just unban him, then start the timer 

[AlphaWeeaboo]

That is very well said Chris.
Hell, I barely even want to make a judgement from my own standpoint because it would be slightly biased! I have wronged Crypto before as Yahtzee stated and he came at me incredibly blunt, but understandable. He was a scary person to deal with for meat the time.

[Yahtzee]

It seems like recently that all these Ban/Unban threads always devolve into some sort of Bias. I suggest that next time we keep it at just +1 or -1. No explanations as why, no whining, no devolving into a shitstorm just +1 and -1. Let all the personal bullshit be dealt with somewhere else.

[Dinomoto]

It seems like recently that all these Ban/Unban threads always devolve into some sort of Bias. I suggest that next time we keep it at just +1 or -1. No explanations as why, no whining, no devolving into a shitstorm just +1 and -1. Let all the personal bullshit be dealt with somewhere else.

No explanations why? ...Nope. That's just silly. If there's no explanations then nothing can get done. You may see this as a shitstorm, and the thing between you and crow is drama, big whoop, I suggest you both take your personal crap elsewhere. Bringing to the attention of how things are here is vital, and need to be corrected/improved.

[Yahtzee]

It seems like recently that all these Ban/Unban threads always devolve into some sort of Bias. I suggest that next time we keep it at just +1 or -1. No explanations as why, no whining, no devolving into a shitstorm just +1 and -1. Let all the personal bullshit be dealt with somewhere else.

No explanations why? ...Nope. That's just silly. If there's no explanations then nothing can get done. You may see this as a shitstorm, and the thing between you and crow is drama, big whoop, I suggest you both take your personal crap elsewhere. Bringing to the attention of how things are here is vital, and need to be corrected/improved.

Good point made Dino. Glad this thread is headed in the right direction.