Kacey

[Tictactoe360]

One thing to consider: why would I I come back and go through all of this trouble just to get back on and minge again and permanently rebanned? That'd be pointless.

THIS.

Same reason you came back on and minged after you were banned and warned several times.
You don't learn, that's something you've already proven with your past actions.

That once again I'll repeat, show you don't deserve another chance.

So let me repeat

That's not the point.
The point is, you already had your chance, several chances actually.
And guess what? Everytime you were given a chance, you continued to RDM and Team Kill.

You're past actions show that you don't deserve a second chance.
You've insulted community members, harassed the admin who banned you and even sent disgusting and horrendous shock images.

To put it simply nobody wants to give you a second chance because you don't deserve one.

It's not about how easy it is to reban you
It's about how you don't deserve to be unbanned to begin with.

Your past actions were beyond disgusting and from what I've seen almost nobody wants to give you a second chance, you burned far too many bridges kid.

[oobla37]

    ANYBODY sees any minging, and we type out a a 4 word command. I don't see what he would want to prove to us through an unban that would last 30 seconds at most. Regardless, I have stuck by this in the past, permanent is permanent.
      We have not proved that at all. We say it, but don't mean it. We pick and choose, as a community, which is good, but permanent is obviously not permanent. We have a willing and (arguably) good community member currently who can attest to that. (His name starts with a K, and I heard he cooks delicious food.)
     We should stop with the double standards. They mean nothing. I have said this before many times, either we get an inbetween ban, (month bans) and stick with perma is perma, or we change the phrase to "permanent isn't always permanent." The double standard must stop.

[Tictactoe360]

    ANYBODY sees any minging, and we type out a a 4 word command. I don't see what he would want to prove to us through an unban that would last 30 seconds at most. Regardless, I have stuck by this in the past, permanent is permanent.
      We have not proved that at all. We say it, but don't mean it. We pick and choose, as a community, which is good, but permanent is obviously not permanent. We have a willing and (arguably) good community member currently who can attest to that. (His name starts with a K, and I heard he cooks delicious food.)
     We should stop with the double standards. They mean nothing. I have said this before many times, either we get an inbetween ban, (month bans) and stick with perma is perma, or we change the phrase to "permanent isn't always permanent." The double standard must stop.

I know we're not supposed to post about "Permanent is Permanent" but there should be exceptions, if someone makes 1 mistake that results in a perma ban and they come back and apologize give them a second chance.

But that's not the case.
Kacey here got permabanned after several warning and smaller bans and instead of accepting his ban and apologizing.

He raged and then sent the admin who banned him an image of a mutilated dick.
This kid burned every single possible bridge he had, he's undeserving of an unban.

I believe there is no double standards as the cause of the permaban is the variable that can lead to an unban.

A person who gets made does something stupid in a round and blows up 7 innocents and gets permabanned

Isn't in the same group as the kid who constantly rdms and then harasses the admin who banned him afterwards.

Edit I do agree with you though that we need more ban types a 1 - 3 month ban option would be nice for harder cases, but I'd say this definitely falls into a permaban category

[oobla37]

All fair points, except for the fact that we have our good friend kwuartz. He was permabanned under less than harmonious circumstances than kacey, and he's still here. Permanent is not always permanent. Whether Kacey should be banned or unbanned, I'm leaning towards against, but after this, we need a thread where we finally lay to rest whether permanent is permanent, because this is a mess.

I'm starting to lean towards kacey staying gone, as well.
EDIT- and by stating that we need a thread, I mean any that will solve the issue that comes up, is permanent, permanent. Month-3 months is as good a solution as any.

[crovv]

I believe there is no double standards as the cause of the permaban is the variable that can lead to an unban.

A person who gets made does something stupid in a round and blows up 7 innocents and gets permabanned

Isn't in the same group as the kid who constantly rdms and then harasses the admin who banned him afterwards.

Edit I do agree with you though that we need more ban types a 1 - 3 month ban option would be nice for harder cases, but I'd say this definitely falls into a permaban category

after this, we need a thread where we finally lay to rest whether permanent is permanent, because this is a mess.

We do need a thread talking about this. Maybe a 1-3 month, even 6 month ban? As Kacey is saying, a lot can change in 6 months. Unfortunately for him, I don't believe this applies in this case because of all the burned bridges and less-than-stellar performance in this thread.

[kaelthex]

it has been a long time and if he does do it again then its a perma i mean everyone deserves second chances.

[Old Crow]

Its pretty clear that we may need to add some more ban lengths.

At any rate, I still see no change, so my response is the same.

[Tictactoe360]

it has been a long time and if he does do it again then its a perma i mean everyone deserves second chances.

He's already had his second chance, and third and possibly fourth
Why give more chances to somebody who's wasted all the previous ones while shouting the same things he is now "I changed" "I don't do this anymore" he said that last time, and the time before and every time he was lying.

[Leninade]

Its pretty clear that we may need to add some more ban lengths.

At any rate, I still see no change, so my response is the same.

Given the fact that he has bans from june to now on other servers, I'd say it's pretty clear indication that there's no reason to let him back in. He obviously won't bring anything positive to the community, and has shown that all he does is cause issues not only on CG servers, but on other servers as well.

Clearly not someone we need here.

[oobla37]

it has been a long time and if he does do it again then its a perma i mean everyone deserves second chances.

He's already had his second chance, and third and possibly fourth
Why give more chances to somebody who's wasted all the previous ones while shouting the same things he is now "I changed" "I don't do this anymore" he said that last time, and the time before and every time he was lying.

Agreed.

[Yahtzee]

LETS KEEP BEATING THE DEAD HORSE GUYS!!! 6 MORE PAGES!

[SkiesAhoy]

I think all perspectives have been laid out on the table. If someone has something new to bring to the discussion, by all means do, but let's avoid redundant posts.

[UnknownError]

I'll support an unban for Kacey. I've been banned before (Minecraft) from a community for doing stupid shit. There is a feeling of regret toward what you do to get banned from a community. Especially as our TTT server is far superior to others in terms of regulation, players, and the exclusion of "trails" and "hats"

6 Months I think is enough to change a person.

Best of luck with your future.

-Unknown.

[Cortez (Mr. T. FOO!)]

Okay, a few things to mention here. A permanent ban is permanent unless appealed, which is why it is called such. Without a successful appeal the ban stays, which is the same with all ban lengths. To call it something else would be pointless. Also, when I said earlier to not +/-1 ban appeals I meant it, I don't want to see that shit on TTT appeals. It doesn't mean anything except that the person supports or doesn't support the appeal which could be for a number of reason which can should be stated anyways, if relevant.

This, however, is not a successful appeal. You were banned for doing something that you knew you weren't supposed to do and therefore, should not be unbanned. I'm not going to ask one of my admins to act as some sort of parole officer either, they didn't sign up for that and it would just be an excess to all of the bullshit they already have to deal with. Finally, to compare this to Kwaurtz ban appeal is ridiculous. Kwaurtz was banned under totally different circumstances and for a somewhat unjust reason.

Ban appeal denied, thread locked.