ZMers, your opinion on player attitudes please.

[Christovski]

So recently we get plenty of attitudey players, folks who are sarcastic and almost mocking in such a way that is very irritating, but might not cross the line into being a dick or trolling.

Had a couple players tonight that were very irritating to me, but I couldn't tell if I would have legitimate cause to punish them, or if I would just be playing the role of the butthurt admin who can't handle a little ribbing.

The real issue is we all act a little snarky to each other and other players, so its hard for me to tell when someone has crossed a line that we don't cross ourselves.  I don't want to be hypocritical and mute people for doing the same stuff we do, and have people flipping out about ABOOSE.

So my ZMers, what do you think, where would you draw the line?  I understand some people are dicks and deserve it, but the real issue is, how do you tell when they are being a dick, and when they are teasing like we do?

I want to crack down on people I think are rude, but I don't want to be unfair, and I certainly don't want to be a rage admin.

[Toku]

well, i guess asking the current people playing the game if they want the person muted/banned as well would be a pretty good way to go about it. That way if everyone or most people agree that, "hey yeah this guys kinda being a jack-ass, i vote you mute him." You can do it

[Christovski]

The only issue with that, is it is never just one guy, usually 2 or 3, who will 'rally the crowd' as it were in support of them and 'down with the admin' crowd mentality.

[Toku]

Really? usually when i play a majority of the people seem to agree with muting the annoying people. haven't played in a month though so I guess there could be some jerks who jumped in the server recently.

[Kwaurtz]

I mean, muting for sarcasm or being rude is going kinda far and just being too harsh in my opinion. Then again, I think the rules we have now in terms of the community could use a bit more leniency, but that's me, and I'm a libertarian.

[Cadaver]

Draw the line when they are abusive, and disrespectful.  Where they push the limits, to the point it negatively impacts game play.

They can be pains, and attempt to get a rise out of you.  Remember, it is the internet, not real life.  Their statements are nothing, but the derp created by being behind a keyboard and monitor.

[Sejo Mino]

In the many times I played the server in the past they will start to think the admins are push overs and then they will take advantage. They will then threaten the community (server meaning) by saying they are buddys with the admins and they will not get into trouble. Also Cris is right about the people, they will start supporting the troll on the server. Their is usually a point that is to be taken then you can mute. It may make you look bad but it is part of the experience of being admin. If they start complaining give them warnings because they will more then likely start, trolling the server in other ways. I will add on to this later on.

[AlphaWeeaboo]

zm crowd are usually trolly folks. my suggestion from experience is to just be lax and jokey.

[Sammy]

Yeah dunno what it is with ZM... As if they game draws players that like to break rules, and then mess around with the admins, whether that be 'flouting' the rules or pretending to be a victim whilst getting other players also against the Admin.

I've had countless in my time at CG. Best thing to do is stand firm. I have a "no shits given" policy when it comes to admin, and although that makes me seem harsh and/or boring, I couldn't care less. It's our job to uphold the rules and punish those who consistently break them. Those who then turn to chat and voice to cause problems due to whatever they did are muted and/or gagged.

All I can say is, make sure you memorize all the rules and follow them to the letter. Most of our regulars would appreciate that and most players aren't like these people, and dislike these people even playing on the server.

[Christovski]

For people like Kwaurtz and Cadav who aren't ZMers and don't know the players I'm talking about, these guys will be sarcastic about the rules and feign ignorance and generally be a pain in the ass.  "WHy did you must that guy?!"  "He said f****t" which is against teh rules" "Where I don't see that unmute him that's not cool"  "He broke the rules, he's muted for now" "That's ridiculous unmute him c'mon guys this guy is way too harsh what's your problem"

Etc.  Again, not quite being a dick or trolling, but being a pain in the ass

[Leetgrain]

If they carry on like that I'd say to warn them a few times, then if they carry on, just mute them.

[Christovski]

The real issue is with ZM you get lots of "We don't need no stinkin' rules this is ZM we do what we want" people, so when someone starts being sarcastic in relation to the rules, they aren't really breaking a rule themselves, but begin to undermine the validity of the rules as more people chime in. 

For another example, "That's not TKing that's just part of the game" "Yeah well I'm sure the person that got killed because you put the barrel near the trap and the map popped it is not enjoying it as part of the game, it is TKing and Tkers get punished" "They should have known not to stand near the barrel it's not my fault, right guys?  You're just mad you got killed last round admin." and then I facepalm.

The worst case is people arguing against rules, saying they are too strict or not fair, or generally being a nuisance over our rules, and I DO warn them for that and eventually mute them, since if they don't like a rule they can come here and discuss it (we have at least 2 announcements in the chat plugin that say to register on the forums and make suggestions, etc)

[Sammy]

Actually Chris, as far as I'm aware TK'ing is only against the rules in the form of intentional blocking.

Playing around with explosives and whatnot isn't actually against the rules. I used to do it all the time, and barrel rubbing for example is one of the prime reasons ZM is actually fun.
There are very few ways to TK in ZM. Blocking being the current only punishable offense as far as I can remember. Unless in the first few days of being HA you've altered the rules already...

[Christovski]

Well yeah of course I have, I'm not Arby's and I'm not running it the same as him, things will be different.  Arby's is kind of a troll from every interaction I've ever had with the guy, so I'm not surprised he was lenient on TKing.

I'm not tolerating good players being killed because other players are messing with barrels.  I'd equate it to being RMDed in TTT, your round is ruined by one idiot.

[Ðeath.]

I actually find it quite easy to deal with these players, tbh. I'm not 100% Certain which ones you're talking about, but if you're talking about the ones who are pretty much just disrespectful to the admin? Tell him there's a reason the rules are there. We don't want the kind of people who don't respect players here/follow rules/etc. Quite a few servers have gone down quite recently in fact, like MFB, and two of the zfc servers. (One furry hell, and one fight club. I'm aware they aren't related.) Last I checked, they weren't administrated too well. So if they're riling up the crowd to work against you, give them a mute, tell them to stop, and then unmute them.

However, if it's one of those people who wont stop bugging the crap out of you/annoying the server/ticking off the server(or even constantly blocking in asdf/bubbles/random, on the *rarest* of occasions,) I find that if you find they deserve roughly a pretty long mute, or something along those lines, a three minute ban works out fine if you put reason as "Come back in three minutes, when you're mature."

The only problem I can see you having, is knowing who's really a dick, and who's joshing around. I feel like if someone's a dick, they'd have a real attitude problem, and haven't shown any form of communication that doesn't show them being a dick.