Ban Appeal - Zombie Master 1.2.1 server - Username Fratricide

[Christovski]

This guy has been muted and kicked a few times for trolling, mic-spamming, as well as trying to rally players against the admins over rules he doesn't like, and is already on the "players to watch for" thread in the admin section from previous offenses. 

The server announcements list the rules, and definitely say no pornography is allowed, plus the MOTD that pops up when anyone joins shows our full list of rules, if he ignores the MOTD and the announcements in chat that say its not allowed, we STILL from time to time say that it is prohibited, AND the spray remover plugin warns the player whenever their spray is removed.

Fratricide is problematic, and I don't believe most of the stuff he claims Tictac did, the only time I've seen tic slapping people for "no reason" is when they are afk otherwise there are reasons for punishment.

I've only seen tic kick and ban people very rarely, and it was always due to blatant disregard for the rules, or heavy trolling.

Also, if everyone would read, he was banned by DEATH, not Tictac!



edit: added rules info

[otterfiend]

This guy has been muted and kicked a few times for trolling, mic-spamming, as well as trying to rally players against the admins over rules he doesn't like, and is already on the "players to watch for" thread in the admin section from previous offenses.

This. Frat is always a problem. He wants it his way and if he doesn't get it, he can't accept it.

[Positronic]

This guy has been muted and kicked a few times for trolling, mic-spamming, as well as trying to rally players against the admins over rules he doesn't like, and is already on the "players to watch for" thread in the admin section from previous offenses. 

The server announcements list the rules, and definitely say no pornography is allowed, plus the MOTD that pops up when anyone joins shows our full list of rules, if he ignores the MOTD and the announcements in chat that say its not allowed, we STILL from time to time say that it is prohibited, AND the spray remover plugin warns the player whenever their spray is removed.

Fratricide is problematic, and I don't believe most of the stuff he claims Tictac did, the only time I've seen tic slapping people for "no reason" is when they are afk otherwise there are reasons for punishment.

I've only seen tic kick and ban people very rarely, and it was always due to blatant disregard for the rules, or heavy trolling.

Also, if everyone would read, he was banned by DEATH, not Tictac!



edit: added rules info

Hi Christovski.  Thanks for the prompt reply.  I really am curious: what "previous offenses" am I on "watch" for?  I know I sometimes have an abrasive personality, but so do a lot of other players (admins included!) and I do respect the rules of the server.  If you could provide an instance of me being kicked or warned for trolling or mic-spamming, that would be great, because I can honestly say that I do not recall that ever happening to me on any ConjointGaming servers.

If you'll notice, I never sprayed any pornography, nor did I even advocate for others that did spray pornography.  I just made two light-hearted comments remarking on how not-so-serious spraying pornography in an online video game is.  I did not realize at the time the nature of the spray (someone later informed me it was beastiality, which is really disgusting), of course.

To Rainbow: Please leave this to the parties involved, also, there are no Zombie Master Head Admins.

To Fratricide: You have been warned previous, gagged, and kicked, actually, for your attitude torwards the Zombie Master admins. It was more than three days ago, however it still warrants as a warn. I am not sure how you have forgotten this.

Hi Death.  Thanks for the prompt reply.  I don't think I've ever actually been gagged or kicked because of any perceived attitude; are you sure you're thinking of the right person?  Even if I were gagged previously because of any perceived attitude, I really don't think an instant ban "more than three days later" (as you claim) is warranted in this situation, given my two relatively innocuous comments.  Let me know what you think, and have a nice day.

Just want to say, I was there, Fratricide was given warnings, ignored them, and was banned.

He was also warned using the admin chat functions, which don't show up in console logs.

Hi Raunky.  I don't remember seeing you ingame at the time that I was banned.  I also will say that your claims are a complete fabrication, and even Death will agree (I would hope) that admin chat functions were not used to warn me in this instance.  Have a nice day.

To all parties involved: Look, I will be the first to tell you that I have an abrasive personality.  Maybe sometimes that can be construed as having an "attitude".  However I have not done anything against any of the rules of ConjointGaming servers, and I don't mean I just haven't violated any specific rules.  It is my belief that none of my actions go against the spirit of the rules either. 

My two comments in this case ("who cares about a porn spray really" and "why do admins get so butthurt about porn sprays? do they fear the naked female body that much?") were meant only as light-hearted jests, though I can see how an admin may have interpreted them as a personal affront (specifically the latter comment). 

For that I would like to apologize, personally, to Death and to any others online at the time who were involved in my ban.  I hope that you can see that my actions and comments were not intended to disrupt the community and that my ban, given this context, is disproportionate.

Thanks,
Fratricide

[Raunky]

Just want to say, I was there, Fratricide was given warnings, ignored them, and was banned.

He was also warned using the admin chat functions, which don't show up in console logs.

Hi Raunky.  I don't remember seeing you ingame at the time that I was banned.  I also will say that your claims are a complete fabrication, and even Death will agree (I would hope) that admin chat functions were not used to warn me in this instance.  Have a nice day.

I hop between a lot of different names in ZM.

I'm not lying to try to get you banned because I don't like you, I don't have anything personal against you. I'm just telling everyone what I recalled happened.

[Christovski]

It was my understanding that you sprayed the spray in question, if you were still giving the admins a hard time I think you deserve a time out, but I don't know what the appropriate duration would be, at least a day or three because this has happened before.

In the past you have been muted for spamming sound clips through voice chat (HLSS, HLDJ, or whatever) and you responded by berating the admin for muting you, another time you were arguing against the rules/admin for punishing someone (may have been you or another I forget the full details) but you have been anti-rules in my experience

You have also said some things in your ban appeal here, in your first few posts, that I believe are either lies or ignorance (for example that you got no warnings)

So you have not exactly been on your best behavior, and you have been punished for it.  I believe you deserve a ban, however I am not 100% sure you deserve a full week since I wasn't there when you were banned, so I can't make that judgement.  I also do not appreciate you attempting to blame some things on Tictac, who as far as I know has nothing to do with this ban.

[Ðeath.]

  I also do not appreciate you attempting to blame some things on Tictac, who as far as I know has nothing to do with this ban.

Tictac kicked the beastiality/underage sprayer.

I'd also like to request you to not lie in your ban appeal thread; While I understand you may be stating a week is harsh, lying will just make it look worse on you. You have been warned previous, there is a post that even states that you have been warned, kicked, and muted, before this incident.

Thorax, Otterfiend, Raunky, Christovski, and I, have all stated we have warned you in the past. And not only do I say that Admin Chat warnings were given, I believe vocal warnings over microphone were given as well.


Edit: If you'd like to take up an admin abuse thread, please provide evidence as well. As far as I can tell, Tictac/Thorax has not kicked anyone at random, nor has he been verbally abusing players. It's possible he was making joking comments torwards me, though. That is common.

[Positronic]

  I also do not appreciate you attempting to blame some things on Tictac, who as far as I know has nothing to do with this ban.

Tictac kicked the beastiality/underage sprayer.

I'd also like to request you to not lie in your ban appeal thread; While I understand you may be stating a week is harsh, lying will just make it look worse on you. You have been warned previous, there is a post that even states that you have been warned, kicked, and muted, before this incident.

Thorax, Otterfiend, Raunky, Christovski, and I, have all stated we have warned you in the past. And not only do I say that Admin Chat warnings were given, I believe vocal warnings over microphone were given as well.


Edit: If you'd like to take up an admin abuse thread, please provide evidence as well. As far as I can tell, Tictac/Thorax has not kicked anyone at random, nor has he been verbally abusing players. It's possible he was making joking comments torwards me, though. That is common.

Hi Death.  Thanks for the prompt reply.  I can honestly state that I have not lied once in this entire exchange.  As I say, to my knowledge I have not been kicked or gagged from ConjointGaming Zombie Master servers.  I suppose it is possible that this is not the case (as you say there is some information which states otherwise), but if that is so I really am at a loss to explain that as I cannot honestly recall any such incidents.  I'm no fool and I realize how fruitless it would be to lie to administrators!

Raunky claims that a warning was given in this particular case (i.e. right before I was banned), which I hope you will agree is 100% false.  A warning may have been given more than three days prior to my banning, as you state (which I dispute), but no warnings were given in this case.  I think you'll agree that Raunky is mistaken about this, no?

I also think Christovski and perhaps other administrators are mistaken about my identity.  Many seem to be claiming that it was I that sprayed something pornographic, which is simply not the case.  So everyone reading and responding to this is clear: I was banned for jokingly suggesting that spraying pornography in an online game isn't such a big deal.  I have created this ban appeal thread simply because I do not feel, given the context that I and others have provided in this thread, that an instantaneous ban for an entire week is proportional.  Let me know what you think, and have a nice day.

Just want to say, I was there, Fratricide was given warnings, ignored them, and was banned.

He was also warned using the admin chat functions, which don't show up in console logs.

Hi Raunky.  I don't remember seeing you ingame at the time that I was banned.  I also will say that your claims are a complete fabrication, and even Death will agree (I would hope) that admin chat functions were not used to warn me in this instance.  Have a nice day.

I hop between a lot of different names in ZM.

I'm not lying to try to get you banned because I don't like you, I don't have anything personal against you. I'm just telling everyone what I recalled happened.

Hi Raunky.  So, you maintain that at around 3:10 PM EST on 6/17, you witnessed an admin give some sort of warning (be it through mic or admin text, etc.) towards a user named "Fratricide" concerning his "attitude"?  I just want to make sure we're on the same page here.

It was my understanding that you sprayed the spray in question, if you were still giving the admins a hard time I think you deserve a time out, but I don't know what the appropriate duration would be, at least a day or three because this has happened before.

In the past you have been muted for spamming sound clips through voice chat (HLSS, HLDJ, or whatever) and you responded by berating the admin for muting you, another time you were arguing against the rules/admin for punishing someone (may have been you or another I forget the full details) but you have been anti-rules in my experience

You have also said some things in your ban appeal here, in your first few posts, that I believe are either lies or ignorance (for example that you got no warnings)

So you have not exactly been on your best behavior, and you have been punished for it.  I believe you deserve a ban, however I am not 100% sure you deserve a full week since I wasn't there when you were banned, so I can't make that judgement.  I also do not appreciate you attempting to blame some things on Tictac, who as far as I know has nothing to do with this ban.

Hi Christovski.  Thanks for the prompt reply.  I think you may have my identity confused with another player(s).  For example, I have never sprayed anything pornographic.  My one week ban was ostensibly for jokingly suggesting that the spraying of something pornographic isn't such a huge deal.  Of course at the time I did not realize that the spray in question was of beastiality!

As for the claims that I have lied in this thread: my overarching point here is that to my knowledge I was not given any warnings concerning my "attitude" towards the admins.  Moreover, even if I were given such a warning, as Death claims, that warning would have been given over three days prior to my ban.  Ostensibly, I was banned instantaneously for making two innocuous comments that rubbed Death the wrong way.  As I've said before, I personally apologize to Death for any offense he may have taken at these statements; I certainly did not intend for them to incite trouble or cause problems for any members of the staff at ConjointGaming.

As I have said before, I will be the first to admit that I can be abrasive at times (but who can't, really?)!  However, I think given the context that I and others have provided in this thread concerning my ban, a week is not really proportionate to what (if anything) I "did".  Let me know what you think, and have a nice day.

Thanks,
Fratricide

[otterfiend]

Using a thesaurus won't make your claims any less full of nonsense. We have multiple server admins and even a non-admin witness posting to verify either past or present issues with you. Also, I have muted you myself in the past for sound-clip trolling via micspam.

My suggested action for Inject is to have Frat wait it out like anyone else who breaks the rules.

[Christovski]

Frat, you have now convinced me that almost everything you are saying is a fabrication, or at the very least trying to sugarcoat it.

The sheer volume of contradictions in your posting is astounding.

I refuse to be moved by all the nicey nice talk, I vote the ban stays

[Positronic]

Using a thesaurus won't make your claims any less full of nonsense. We have multiple server admins and even a non-admin witness posting to verify either past or present issues with you. Also, I have muted you myself in the past for sound-clip trolling via micspam.

My suggested action for Inject is to have Frat wait it out like anyone else who breaks the rules.

Hi otterfiend.  Thanks for the prompt reply.  I have, I think, been courteous and respectful throughout this entire exchange so I'm not sure why you see fit to insert a character attack in your response?  If you take issue with my diction or think I am somehow confusing things, feel free to let me know.  If you think my claims are "full of nonsense", I would be happy to hear your point of view.  I think my posts have described my point of view fairly well, but if there is some specific point you're hung up on, don't hesitate to point it out! 

The reason I take issue with these "multiple server admins and even a non-admin witness" is that (a) the admin witnesses often seem to be confused as to my identity or what I did to get banned and (b) the "non-admin witness" also seems to be confused regarding the context for my ban, as I was definitely not warned in this specific case (and that's something I'm sure Death will agree with, even if he says that I was warned days before).

Just to reiterate, I was ostensibly banned for the following two comments made immediately upon joining the server: "who cares about a porn spray really" and "why do admins get so butthurt about porn sprays? do they fear the naked female body that much?".  I thought from the context it would be clear that those comments were jokingly poking fun and not the product of some sort of toxic "attitude".  However, since that is apparently not the case I have apologized personally to the admin that banned me, Death, for any offense those comments may have caused him.

So, all in all, I'm just a bit confused as to how those two seemingly innocuous comments could be construed as some sort of negative/confrontational attitude, especially given that I was not warned in this situation (whether or not I was warned several days prior to this for allegedly "micspamming" etc. is irrelevant to this situation, I think.  What is at stake is the nature of the comments I made.)  Let me know what you think, and have a nice day.

Thanks,
Fratricide

[Mr_Rainbow]

I know I don't have a very much of a say in this matter, but I've been following it and I agree with chris that the ban should stay.

[Positronic]

Frat, you have now convinced me that almost everything you are saying is a fabrication, or at the very least trying to sugarcoat it.

The sheer volume of contradictions in your posting is astounding.

I refuse to be moved by all the nicey nice talk, I vote the ban stays

Hi Christovski.  Thanks for the prompt reply.  I take your posts very seriously so I'd like to get to the bottom of this.  What, specifically, in my post(s) do you view as a "fabrication" and where do you see me attempting to "sugarcoat" the situation?  Furthermore, what contradictions do you see, in your view?  I think I have already done a pretty good job of clearly outlining my point of view, but I will attempt to be concise and thorough here just to make sure we're all on the same page:

• I did not and have not ever posted a pornographic spray.
• In the past, I have witnessed an admin TicTac doing certain minor things which I would probably characterize as "unprofessional."  I mentioned this in my original post not as a knock against TicTac, but just to point out that my "abrasive personality" has come into conflict with certain administrators in the past, as several people have even pointed out in this thread.  I have nothing against TicTac personally, I just think it's potentially relevant to this situation given that he's good friends with Death, and Death was always present when I criticized TicTac's job as a zombie master.
• To my knowledge I have not been warned, kicked, or gagged on ConjointGaming Zombie Master servers prior to this ban.  I am being 100% sincere with this statement, though I will freely admit that it is possible that I have been warned for micspamming, as I do have HLDJ and occasionally play music for people (though I am respectful of admin decisions and will stop playing if someone asks me to).  In any case, I have not been warned for having a toxic attitude.
• Regardless of whether or not I was warned several days ago for something like micspamming music via HLDJ, for example, in this particular instance I was not kicked, warned, or otherwise messaged by any admin regarding my statements.  Ask Death if you dispute this point, but this is 100%, unequivocally true.  If Death had simply explained the situation, or said "hey Fratricide, don't do that" or whatever, I would have willingly obliged.
• Given the bolded point above, I don't understand how my one week ban is proportionate to whatever it is that I "did" (which I am still unsure of!).

I'm not trying to sugarcoat anything, or mislead anyone, or lie, or weasel my way out of anything.  If you find something wrong with any of the above bullets, let me know.  I have tried to be courteous throughout this process, but I apologize if that comes off as insincere somehow.  To be quite honest, I am at a loss as to why I was banned!  As always, let me know what you think, and have a nice day.

Thanks,
Fratricide

EDIT:  Thanks again for your thoughts Mr_rainbow.  However, as Death has pointed out several times before, I think it's best if this thread is limited to the parties involved in this exchange (specifically myself, Death, and other ConjointGaming administrators).  I respect your view but I think you've already expressed them in multiple posts.

[xXArbysOvenMittXx]

Oh boy, I remember Fratricide from a year ago. He was disrespecting me and my admins back then, too. I say just perma-ban him, he always came back from kicks/bans back in the day doing the same crap, skirting around the rules, disrespecting admins, and just being an ass in general. However I do not think this was handled very well.

[otterfiend]

Oh boy, I remember Fratricide from a year ago. He was disrespecting me and my admins back then, too. I say just perma-ban him, he always came back from kicks/bans back in the day doing the same crap, skirting around the rules, disrespecting admins, and just being an ass in general. However I do not think this was handled very well.

Perma-ban sounds like a good idea to me too. I would like to update my previous recommendation to match Arbys'.

[Old Crow]

Alright I think this is going to need an end soon.

The ZM admins have given their side of the story, and it seems clear from them that you did break the rules. The ZM admins have had zero complaints of admin abuse and as somebody who has played with them before, I can assure you that all of them are quite good at their job. I'm going to side with them on this matter.

I will add that for future reference, could the ZM admins please take screenshots of all evidence. It helps greatly for us to show specific rules were broken. Steam has a screenshot picture, and so does FRAPs. On top of that, Tictac has his videos, which I am sure are able to go at any time.

Frat: I've read most of your posts, but the way you word them is terrible and hard to read. You do not have to say "Hi XXX, thanks for the quick replay" every single time somebody says something. My next suggestion is to follow the rules of the server and listen to what the admins say. It seems like you were given fair warning to stop breaking the rules, yet continued to do so.

I am for the ban staying. Whats a week anyway? Its the summer, go outside and do something. Then come back after a week and so long as you follow the rules, you won't be banned further.

If any other CL's would like to comment that would be great (Also guys, Injects having internet issues, so he might not be able to put his say in)