Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy

[Dante]

Chris, Rainbow and Tic may have personal dislike towards you to some degree, but they're not providing any evidence. They're just saying accounts of what they've heard. They're not saying they know it for a fact. And I have heard a lot about you before, as well, so you can see why it makes me lean a little to the admin removal - unban is needed though.

While I trust Nexus and Death, and know that they know what would happen if found falsifying evidence, I also can't help the feeling of something fishy going on.

Hence why I wan't people to look at the Demos and see if they truly are Evidence of any wrong doings. This is incredibly fishy especially since several of us haven't heard anything about this.

[Pillz]

Chris, Rainbow and Tic may have personal dislike towards you to some degree, but they're not providing any evidence. They're just saying accounts of what they've heard. They're not saying they know it for a fact. And I have heard a lot about you before, as well, so you can see why it makes me lean a little to the admin removal - unban is needed though.

While I trust Nexus and Death, and know that they know what would happen if found falsifying evidence, I also can't help the feeling of something fishy going on.

Hence why I wan't people to look at the Demos and see if they truly are Evidence of any wrong doings. This is incredibly fishy especially since several of us haven't heard anything about this.

I don't understand what's fishy though, people just think he doesn't act how admins are expected to act and he broke a few minor rules as if they weren't rules at all. There's just A LOT of evidence to sort through.

[Dante]

Chris, Rainbow and Tic may have personal dislike towards you to some degree, but they're not providing any evidence. They're just saying accounts of what they've heard. They're not saying they know it for a fact. And I have heard a lot about you before, as well, so you can see why it makes me lean a little to the admin removal - unban is needed though.

While I trust Nexus and Death, and know that they know what would happen if found falsifying evidence, I also can't help the feeling of something fishy going on.

Hence why I wan't people to look at the Demos and see if they truly are Evidence of any wrong doings. This is incredibly fishy especially since several of us haven't heard anything about this.

I don't understand what's fishy though, people just think he doesn't act how admins are expected to act and he broke a few minor rules as if they weren't rules at all. There's just A LOT of evidence to sort through.

Several TTT Admins, Regulars and people that still talk to TTT Regs and Admins have never heard of this before. And it feels out of the blue, it looks like no one brought this up due to a grudge/hate of Billy and waited till they could nail him hard, but a lot of this is not evidence.

[Billy]

Billy~ The issue is that you've acted poorly as an admin and while I agree you should of been warned or talked to before a conversation like this picks up, but for some reason I've been hearing people complain about you for a month or two now. I had assumed someone had mentioned it to you by now, and I'm sorry you're just finding this out. It's not as much about breaking the rules as it is acting in a way people don't approve.

I've always believed that you're a cool guy capable of being admin, but I think you haven't taken the job too seriously and apparently it's really bothered some people. The first issue I heard was your inactivity as admin, many people were upset you had gone so long without playing, which helped us work on activity patrols; making sure admins are playing and we began removing inactive vets.

After that discussion I also picked up on RDM issues and propkilling issues from a few months back, followed by more current reports; and perhaps someone does have it out for you. Perhaps you upset an admin or two along the way without knowing you did any harm, and while I understand that's a little unfair; the things shown here look bad combined with your crude jokes and RDM reports.

I know you mean the best Billy, and I don't believe you should be banned at all and I would like to give you a second chance on being admin given you received no fair warnings. Though I also believe we should set an example for all admins and let them know if they fool around and misrepresent how to be an admin, they'll lose their admin. We've been EXTREMELY lenient in the past about what admins can get away with, and we want to really tighten that up, for CL's and admins alike.

If we were on a 3-strike system, inactivity would of been one(which was cleared with Cortez I understand), propkilling or w/e would of been two, using admin chat to talk about black cawk, 3, accidental or purposeful RDM, 4, and I'll guess there might be a strike 5 or 6 in there on someone's list. Not that any of that's too serious at all, but it's a small stack of problems that needed to be addressed. We don't want ANY of our admins doing these things and if we let one person get away with it.. well..

Well I can tell you now, this thread was definitely a wake up call. Please allow me to ask for a second chance. I feel that after four years of being a member and admin, it would be nice if I could at least get a second chance. I'm sure everyone here agrees that I've never done anything particularly severe to warrant an immediate sentence with no parole, right?

Well, if I'm allowed a second chance, what would follow after is pretty simple:
1. I won't use admin chat for anything other than admining. Period.
2. I won't slay/slap people before, during or after a round regardless of if they let me or not, unless it's for punishment reasons (ie. they rdm, etc)
3. I'll stop throwing props, running around with explosive barrels and/or the electric axe.
4. I'll try my best to keep my own RDM to a minimum (Although to be completely honest, I really do never rdm on purpose, but regardless)

There have been threads about TTT not being very fun because of too many rules, super-strict admins, etc. I would consider myself a very "fun" and "lax" admin, and most people like me because of it. But if I need to be more strict, then so be it.

[HerpDerpMike]

I actually talked to Billy after the incidents, I believed him that he would stop. Well, since then I've seen no complaints, I've heard no complains, and I'm pretty sure no one really gave him a chance. Yes, he knew the rules, but I think someone should have told him to stop.

You asked us to make it more fun, and to loosen up. I think Billy was just trying to have fun, tbh (saying this im going to start a shitstorm). Some of the RDMs weren't even valid, like the axe thing. I even saw the guy jump right into the axe. I don't see any really "abuse", just mistreated the admin privileges a bit. Basic rules shouldn't even cause much harm, plus you guys said it yourself, this is one of the first problems that has ever occured about  Billy. Are you sure we should just remove his admin? Yes, I'm aware of all the proof against him. I provided some of that proof, I brought attention to billy that wasn't really needed after I talked to him.

However, throughout the end of this I don't really think some of these things are admin worthy.

[UnknownError]

Yo back when I was admining..the only thing they had a problem with billy was activity. To gather this much evidence means that either Billy was totally oblivious(which I doubt) or people where like gathering up all the bad things he did. Like all admins have missteps it is so easy to get dmglogs and chatlogs out of context.

[oobla37]

Well, exclusively from screenshots, I'm looking at multiple events that would warrant bans to regular players. Being an admin does not put you above the rules. Without looking deeper into the other replies to this thread, I'd say that the screenshots alone warrant a ban or suspension of admin.

[BladeTwinSwords]

I do feel it is rather unfair that Billy was not warned about the minor things he did. I know that Billy just wants people to have a better playing experience in TTT.

On the other hand. Billy, you have been here for 4 years. You should know better and know the rules by now. I have had a couple of instances where you propkilled someone or just flat-out RDM'd. I still haven't forgotten that one incident on Richland where you slap-killed me not once, but twice DURING a round. That's just inexcusable.

Over the course of the past year I have played TTT with you, there have been both positive and negative experiences. But as of recently, the negatives have been growing slowly.

Should you be banned? No I don't think that is right. Should you be stripped of admin powers? Personally, I am on the fence for this one. I have actually watched most of the demos/looked at the screenshots. Some of them are inconclusive while others are somewhat convincing.

I think this would be a very good opportunity to make a request to add SourceTV to TTT and record the server 24/7 so we can get full game demos to see just what is happening in the time before and after player-recorded demos.

[(=CG=) Scooby]

I'm on Billy's side I've looked at several of those screenshots and they don't show anything to me (haven't watched the demos yet) I haven't had any problems with Billy no abuse reports, no admin abuse issues nothing. If you gather all the bad things an admin has done and put it all in a thread it will make them look bad no matter what this isn't fair.

[Leetgrain]

Yo back when I was admining..the only thing they had a problem with billy was activity. To gather this much evidence means that either Billy was totally oblivious(which I doubt) or people where like gathering up all the bad things he did. Like all admins have missteps it is so easy to get dmglogs and chatlogs out of context.

And that's why it smells fishy. Exactly why.

[theyankees213]

Well I say let the people making the decision ( CLs, Cortez, Nexus, few other admins maybe?) watch the demos, and see what happens from there. Lets not rush this people. Forget what you have heard and go with the proof. hes innocent until proven guilty i assume. Maybe he loses his powers. Maybe there suspended. Maybe nothing. lets Just all take a step back and not get hasty. K?

[Old Crow]

I do feel it is rather unfair that Billy was not warned about the minor things he did. I know that Billy just wants people to have a better playing experience in TTT.

On the other hand. Billy, you have been here for 4 years. You should know better and know the rules by now. I have had a couple of instances where you propkilled someone or just flat-out RDM'd. I still haven't forgotten that one incident on Richland where you slap-killed me not once, but twice DURING a round. That's just inexcusable.

Over the course of the past year I have played TTT with you, there have been both positive and negative experiences. But as of recently, the negatives have been growing slowly.

Should you be banned? No I don't think that is right. Should you be stripped of admin powers? Personally, I am on the fence for this one. I have actually watched most of the demos/looked at the screenshots. Some of them are inconclusive while others are somewhat convincing.

I think this would be a very good opportunity to make a request to add SourceTV to TTT and record the server 24/7 so we can get full game demos to see just what is happening in the time before and after player-recorded demos.

+1 to this (not the abuse claim, DON'T KILL ME CORTEZ!)

I will say however, people need to stop saying that we didn't warn him. He has been around for so long, he knows the rules, he knows the game play. If say a trial did something once or even twice, a talking to makes sense. Billy is a regular admin, hes a big boy and doesn't need any sort of warning before he (or any reg/vet/HA/CL) starts to abuse/break rules etc.

Still need to look at the evidence, so with holding judgement.

[Billy]

I will say however, people need to stop saying that we didn't warn him. He has been around for so long, he knows the rules, he knows the game play. If say a trial did something once or even twice, a talking to makes sense. Billy is a regular admin, hes a big boy and doesn't need any sort of warning before he (or any reg/vet/HA/CL) starts to abuse/break rules etc.

Still need to look at the evidence, so with holding judgement.

The thing is, Crow, that's not the point I'm trying to make. I know I don't need a warning before I break rules. I'm not saying I never got a "You can't RDM, it's against the rules." What I AM saying is I never got a, "I don't think you know this but you broke _ rule here, and I don't like it". I'm talking about after the fact. If you read the logs and watch the demos you'll see that it's evidence at all. I think it's not the rdm here, but the things that I've done are very gray zone, and people had complaints, but they never told me about it, so I continued to do distasteful things, oblivious to the fact that people did not agree.

[Old Crow]

The thing is, Crow, that's not the point I'm trying to make. I know I don't need a warning before I break rules. I'm not saying I never got a "You can't RDM, it's against the rules." What I AM saying is I never got a, "I don't think you know this but you broke _ rule here, and I don't like it". I'm talking about after the fact. If you read the logs and watch the demos you'll see that it's evidence at all. I think it's not the rdm here, but the things that I've done are very gray zone, and people had complaints, but they never told me about it, so I continued to do distasteful things, oblivious to the fact that people did not agree.

You've been an admin forever, do we really need to hold your hand? We don't hold anybody elses, minus the trials. You should be aware of the rules, and should know if your breaking them.

So still haven't seen the evidence, but honestly, if there are no major abuses, he should just get suspended. I would classify a major abuse as:

-Slaying for no reason, or little reason.
-Any abuse of powers during the round (after round is ilrevelent IMO
-RDMing, then not enforcing rules on ones self, as well as any other rules that are broken that require enforcement.
-Using admin as a threat (a real threat, not fake ones)
-Total inactivity. Not in the sense of being away but not enforcing rules.
-Only enforcing rules when somebody breaks them when they directly relate to an admin.

Concerning actual inactivity, why didn't you just resign? If your not going to play the game, or don't have the time, whats the use of having the powers when that's actually what the server needs? I can get one month, maybe two, but after three then its just a waste of an admin slot. Real life takes precedence over video games (more so in your case), so its totally understandable if you resign as such because you don't have the time.

[Billy]

You've been an admin forever, do we really need to hold your hand? We don't hold anybody elses, minus the trials. You should be aware of the rules, and should know if your breaking them.

So still haven't seen the evidence, but honestly, if there are no major abuses, he should just get suspended. I would classify a major abuse as:

-Slaying for no reason, or little reason.
-Any abuse of powers during the round (after round is ilrevelent IMO
-RDMing, then not enforcing rules on ones self, as well as any other rules that are broken that require enforcement.
-Using admin as a threat (a real threat, not fake ones)
-Total inactivity. Not in the sense of being away but not enforcing rules.
-Only enforcing rules when somebody breaks them when they directly relate to an admin.

Concerning actual inactivity, why didn't you just resign? If your not going to play the game, or don't have the time, whats the use of having the powers when that's actually what the server needs? I can get one month, maybe two, but after three then its just a waste of an admin slot. Real life takes precedence over video games (more so in your case), so its totally understandable if you resign as such because you don't have the time.

I'm not asking to have my hand held. Let me try to make an analogy for what I mean. If you work at McDonalds and you burn a burger, the manager isn't going to hold your hand and teach you how to cook one properly. He's not going to immediately fire you, either. He's going to tell you not to burn the burgers again. That's what I'm trying to say. I've burned a few burgers, and everyone ate them without complaining. I thought the burgers were cooked just fine, but the whole time they've been crispy, and no one told me. Instead, what the manager did was take a picture of every burger that I've burned, and then at the end of the month, showed them all to me and fired me. It would have been a lot easier if he just told me I was doing wrong the first time, and then it would have all been fixed.

And I didn't resign because I still posted on the forums occasionally, and I still played on TTT perhaps.. Once or twice a week at the time. But inactivity isn't really an issue for me anymore. Since I became a reg, I've been on TTT consistently.

According to your list, I haven't broken any major rules. If Cortez and/or the other CLs read all of this, look through the "evidence" and come to the conclusion that I should be suspended, then so be it. But I honestly feel as if this is a large misunderstanding, and not really a case of "admin abuse". I can only ask not to have my powers remove, and prove that these things are not the case and that I'm fully capable of being what one would call an 'exemplary admin'.