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CG Main => Debate Forum => Topic started by: Monp on May 14, 2011, 05:25:49 AM
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I am just curious to see how many people believe in ghosts/paranormal. I for one do believe in ghosts and have had personal experiences with them. I would like to hear from the community and have a decent discussion about this topic.
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Nope, only when I was young I believed in ghosts.
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I think it's possible they exist my mom claims to have had experiences with it (lol) but there not the kind you see on tv. Media distorts the image of everything making it hard for people to believe.
Either way It's plausible.
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I actually have a fear of windows at night because at the bottom of my garden a light figure its most likely the lights from my house though :(
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Some "paranormal" experts "caught" ghosts on camera.
But basically what they just did is make a glass have a 45° angle against the camera.
And just make a puppet swing on a small fish wire. And that makes it look like the puppet / "ghost" is transparent.
Conclusion, don't always trust television/media.
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If I see a ghost I will believe in it, since I have not seen any I do not.
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I do not believe in ghosts, no proof not even small things.
I've had really random shit happen but I still doubt ghosts had anything to do with it.
The universe still hides alot from us humans, wether that be the paranormal or something explainable.
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I believe they exist.
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I watch a lot of those ghost hunter series... I sit and try to figure out how they fake everything.
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From my own experiences, yes I do.
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I believe life after death, whether they turnto ghosts is up to the persons karma level! frogc00l
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Media distorts a lot of things we see. Since we only get what they want us to hear and not all the facts that are happening. Whenever people have sleep paralysis they tend to think its a ghost or something paranormal when in fact its just something that can happen.
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Nope. Implausible and no real proof besides personal anecdotes(which isn't real proof).
Also, Cadavar, you might like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tf-GzlzU7M
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From my own experiences, yes I do.
Do tell.
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i believe cause i seen one no joke also i watch ghost advenatures on the travel channel every friday at 9
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watch this and u will believe lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laQY0ECov_k
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From my own experiences, yes I do.
Do tell.
I love you. Never go away.
I believe in ghasts.
Sometimes shit just disappears.
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I believe in ghosts and demons.
I also believe the abandoned house next to mine is haunted. But it also has loads of cool shit in it.
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I believe there's a family of miniature pink-skinned knife-juggling elephants on the roof of my house, but I can't prove it.
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Ya ghosts don't exist its just in peoples head i mean there is no rational reason to think ghosts would be walking the earth simply because it wouldn't be possible without a body your emotions and personality wouldn't exist. Its hard to explain why ghosts don't exist if you believe in them nothing i say will change your mind you just have to come to a rational conclusion yourself.
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From my own experiences, yes I do.
Do tell.
Fathers house. To make it short, I'd set down a can, look at TV, and when I turned back it'd be in the kitchen. Objects always were moved. Me and my sister ofter heard voices, dad too. We have a recording of one time my dad was trying to catch proof after an arguing couple (my dad lives alone) kept her up. Cleaning lady comes in and starts up an old fashioned recorder. She leaves and comes back with a friend. Friends says she's going to the bathroom, a males voice can be heard over hers saying "Leave."\
This was apparently the man who lived there before dad's dream house, and had built it himself, his wife died there of old age, as did he. Dad left his name on the door as respect for the old coot.
tl;dr fathers house was haunted, I have proof
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Obviusly some people dont know all types of ghosts. Gabe\nabe here claims experience from a poltergiest. There has also been a claim that ghosts dont exsist because they would need a body and cant have emotions, well there are ghost recordings where ghosts repeat something they did in their life which requires no emotion. The other thing, extoplasm is their blood\body It allows them to become visible and move objects. But ghosts do not have psychic ablitys, thats just bull shit. Also it is unknown if they can posses you.
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Okay, let's break it down.
There has also been a claim that ghosts dont exsist because they would need a body and cant have emotions,
First off, I have never before heard that claim. I have, however, heard claims that ghosts don't exist because it's a nonsensical idea, and that there has been no legitimate, thoroughly documented accounts of ghosts or hauntings ever happening.
The other thing, extoplasm is their blood\body It allows them to become visible and move objects.
Proof of ectoplasm's existence please. After you do some research, you will find that there is no such substance verified to exist.
Also, anecdotal stories are not proof and are backed up by no evidence. Saying that you have seen a ghost holds as much weight as me saying that the batboy and mothman just flew into my home through an open window, said hello to me, made out, and then walked out the front door. Seriously, it just happened. I have an audio recording right here. PROVE TO ME THIS RECORDING ISN'T THE MOTHMAN AND BATBOY.
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From my own experiences, yes I do.
Do tell.
Fathers house. To make it short, I'd set down a can, look at TV, and when I turned back it'd be in the kitchen. Objects always were moved. Me and my sister ofter heard voices, dad too. We have a recording of one time my dad was trying to catch proof after an arguing couple (my dad lives alone) kept her up. Cleaning lady comes in and starts up an old fashioned recorder. She leaves and comes back with a friend. Friends says she's going to the bathroom, a males voice can be heard over hers saying "Leave."\
This was apparently the man who lived there before dad's dream house, and had built it himself, his wife died there of old age, as did he. Dad left his name on the door as respect for the old coot.
tl;dr fathers house was haunted, I have proof
Guess it runs in the family.
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Here is the problem we cant know if ghosts exsist or not, there is proof they exsist but the evidence is questionabe. AKA: Occult Tomes, Lore, Personal accounts and the recorded video evidence (Taps and stuff). You can't say they don't exsist because thats an opinion, if you still insist on saying they don't exsist then bring actual proof they do not exsist.
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I believe there's a family of miniature pink-skinned knife-juggling elephants on the roof of my house, but I can't prove it.
/thread
K SOLVED
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Here is the problem we cant know if ghosts exsist or not, there is proof they exsist but the evidence is questionabe. AKA: Occult Tomes, Lore, Personal accounts and the recorded video evidence (Taps and stuff). You can't say they don't exsist because thats an opinion, if you still insist on saying they don't exsist then bring actual proof they do not exsist.
First off, you said it yourself, the "evidence" is questionable. If ghosts were such a common phenomenon, they would have been properly explained by now, or a legitimate theory of how they could exist, when being in direct violation of the laws of this universe, would have been formed.
Now for your proposed evidence of occult tomes and lore, neither are factual. If you believe that an occult book is proof for existence of ghosts, then logically, every other creature detailed in that book would exist, and obviously that is crazy. Lore is also not proof. Lore is traditional and anecdotal "knowledge.' Implying that stories written by people hundreds of years ago can be used to explain a phenomenon still experienced is not logical. That argument implies that someone that lived hundreds of years ago had a deeper understanding of science and nature than we have now, and that is a ridiculous stance to take.
Personal accounts, are obviously not legitimate evidence, either. Anyone can make up an story about how they heard a strange noise and just assume that it was a ghost, when a much more logical explanation exists.
Photo and video evidence cannot be trusted either, because of how simple it is to put ghostly images on film. There's this neat little trick called double exposure that puts ghostly images on film, and has been a very popular trick used by photographers to create ghosts in photos. This is the technique used to create most of the famous photographed ghosts.
Now, if you would listen to reason just for a moment, instead of living in your fantasy world, you would also see that the laws of physics dictates that ghosts are an impossibility. Common ghost stories say that ghosts can walk and move objects, while at the same time being able to go through solid objects. This violates Newton's second law of physics, that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. They exert forces onto objects, yet they can pass through others. They cannot go from a state of being able to effect the physical world and not having any effect.
Now, if you use the argument that they can create "ectoplasm"(a nonexsistant substance) to interact with their environment, that is violating another law of physics by creating matter from nothing.
Everything we know about nature and science is in direct conflict with proposed "knowledge" of ghosts.
Now that that's out of the way, care to tell me why you believe in ghosts, or perhaps show me some evidence of their existence that you might have?
Can't believe I wrote all that for a guy who will probably refuse to listen to logic and come up with a terrible, terrible counterargument as to why legitimate science is wrong and why his baseless claims are correct.
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Can't believe I wrote all that for a guy who will probably refuse to listen to logic and come up with a terrible, terrible counterargument as to why legitimate science is wrong and why his baseless claims are correct.
thats the internet for ya =P
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Raunky you would be correct if ghosts were bounded by the 3rd dimension. The thing is, they aren't. You want explanations for ghost? It's actually quiet trivial once you understand dimensions.
A simple guide of the dimensions:
The first dimension [In math the x-axis only] is a single line, the ability to only more straight and backwards. A line straight line doesn't have the ability to go left and right as in the next dimension.
Limitations:
-Can't look/move up or down
-Can't look/move left or right
-Bounded by time
-Unknown
The second dimension [In math the x-axis and y-axis only] is a single plane (combination of all the lines.) The ability to move/look left and right has been added to your ability to move/look straight and behind.
Limitations:
-Can't look/move up or down
-Bounded by time
-Unknown
The third dimension [In math the x-axis, y-axis, and z-axis] is many planes (combination of all the 2d planes.) Now we can ascend and descend as well as look in all directions. Beings of the 2nd dimension can't see us (unless we will otherwise,) and when they do, they only see a sliver of us when we allow them to. There is still a limitation present.
Limitations:
-Bounded by time
-Unknown
The fourth dimension [As science proclaims] is time. Consider we were in the fourth dimension: Not only would we be able to move, we are now everywhere at once, we cannot be seen (unless it is our will) by beings of the 3rd dimension, infinity is a part of us, we do not age, we do not sleep, glasses are full/empty/and in between at the same time, we are able to see all times and all things we have experienced at the same time. Sound familiar to ghosts/any supernatural being?
Limitations:
-Unknown
With all that being said, to say ghosts can't exist because of lack of "legitimate" evidence is pure ignorance to the dimension above us. Science, a study of the natural third dimension (specifically physics,) will not accept and will not explain beings of the fourth dimension. The laws of physics were made specifically for the third dimension.
3rd dimension equation:
Velocity = distance/time
4th dimension version:
Velocity = distance/infinity
You could only find the velocity in the 4th dimension by finding the limit of both sides through calculus, even then it's always going to be the same answer, the limit of any number over infinity is 1. Limits are still saying that there is a limit of time, which there isnt in the 4th dimension. It's really difficult to explain something we don't live in through our conventional means.
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I like the fifth dimension, myself.
Simply put, are ghosts real? Or can they be explained by the air conditioning unit, or the water pipes, or some other legit explanation.
So far, I would have to say, most things fall into the 2nd category.
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First of all, there is no reason to believe that ghosts reside in the fourth dimension. Second, spacetime is governed by the laws of physics. The force of gravity has been proven to have an effect on spacetime. So therefore, if ghosts are hiding in the fourth dimension would have to preside by the laws of physics as we know them.
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First of all, there is no reason to believe that ghosts reside in the fourth dimension. Second, spacetime is governed by the laws of physics. The force of gravity has been proven to have an effect on spacetime. So therefore, if ghosts are hiding in the fourth dimension would have to preside by the laws of physics as we know them.
There is perfectly good reasoning to not even believe, but acknowledge the possibility extreme likelihood that supernatural beings exist and reside in the fourth (or higher) dimension. It explains so much of what they are capable of doing and how they behave. Here is an analogy presented by a very intelligent author whom I can't recall the name:
The 2nd dimension is a flat plane, say we have Mr. Square and Mr. Sphere of the 3rd dimension. Mr. Square hears a voice saying, "Hey, square!" Mr. Square has no idea where the voice is coming from. Mr. Sphere says, "Up here!" Mr. Square looks left and right and see nothing. Then Mr. Sphere says, "Let me come to you." So Mr. Sphere lowers himself on Mr. Square's plane. When Mr. Square looks to his left, he sees a circle which starts small and then gets larger. Mr. Square is baffled and says, "How did you do that? You are a circle which gets smaller and bigger." Mr. Sphere replies, "In my world I can move up and down, unfortunately, you can only see one slice of me at a time because you live in the second dimension. In my world, I am a round sphere, not a circle."
The point of that story is that we are the squares. We can only see one slice of the 4th dimension at a time as the square could only see one slice of the sphere at a time. In the 4th dimension, time does not exist because we see all of our personal individual existence at once. Notice how ghosts only haunt places they have been to in their life? They are bounded by where they have been, however, they are not bounded by the time in which they visited that place. Thus, they are able to haunt any place they have been to at any given time.
The second point of all that I said is that gravity cannot effect something which does not exist. The limitation of time is non-existent in the fourth dimension. Gravity can effect, and you are absolutely right, time as Einstein discovered upon observing space, but only in the first three dimensions.
--------Separate Thought Process For Fun---------
If you want to get into the fifth dimension, I think the next limitation to get overcome is experiencing only our personal experience. The only way we may perceive the fourth dimension is through death. That would transcend our souls to a higher dimension and eliminate time. Our bodies are a prison keeping our souls in the third dimension. Our souls are of another, higher, dimension. Recall how I brought up ghosts being "bounded by where they have been." This is because we can only recall what we have experienced ourselves. Now, taking it a step further, that sounds like a limitation to me.
If you haven't noticed, there is a pattern. Each dimension exceeds a prior dimension's limitation (refer to my last post for an example.) This is to say that there is another limitation to exceed in the fourth dimension which has been exceeded in the fifth dimension. Probability suggests that this next limitation is only knowing what you have experienced. In the fifth dimension, it is possible that this limitation is exceeded and we are then able to recall things from other being's experiences. That is right, a being or many beings who share a unified collection of experiences would be a candidate for the fifth dimension. This also improves the likelihood of deities and explanation of their powers.
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Here is the problem we cant know if ghosts exsist or not, there is proof they exsist but the evidence is questionabe. AKA: Occult Tomes, Lore, Personal accounts and the recorded video evidence (Taps and stuff). You can't say they don't exsist because thats an opinion, if you still insist on saying they don't exsist then bring actual proof they do not exsist.
First off, you said it yourself, the "evidence" is questionable. If ghosts were such a common phenomenon, they would have been properly explained by now, or a legitimate theory of how they could exist, when being in direct violation of the laws of this universe, would have been formed.
Now for your proposed evidence of occult tomes and lore, neither are factual. If you believe that an occult book is proof for existence of ghosts, then logically, every other creature detailed in that book would exist, and obviously that is crazy. Lore is also not proof. Lore is traditional and anecdotal "knowledge.' Implying that stories written by people hundreds of years ago can be used to explain a phenomenon still experienced is not logical. That argument implies that someone that lived hundreds of years ago had a deeper understanding of science and nature than we have now, and that is a ridiculous stance to take.
Personal accounts, are obviously not legitimate evidence, either. Anyone can make up an story about how they heard a strange noise and just assume that it was a ghost, when a much more logical explanation exists.
Photo and video evidence cannot be trusted either, because of how simple it is to put ghostly images on film. There's this neat little trick called double exposure that puts ghostly images on film, and has been a very popular trick used by photographers to create ghosts in photos. This is the technique used to create most of the famous photographed ghosts.
Now, if you would listen to reason just for a moment, instead of living in your fantasy world, you would also see that the laws of physics dictates that ghosts are an impossibility. Common ghost stories say that ghosts can walk and move objects, while at the same time being able to go through solid objects. This violates Newton's second law of physics, that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. They exert forces onto objects, yet they can pass through others. They cannot go from a state of being able to effect the physical world and not having any effect.
Now, if you use the argument that they can create "ectoplasm"(a nonexsistant substance) to interact with their environment, that is violating another law of physics by creating matter from nothing.
Everything we know about nature and science is in direct conflict with proposed "knowledge" of ghosts.
Now that that's out of the way, care to tell me why you believe in ghosts, or perhaps show me some evidence of their existence that you might have?
Can't believe I wrote all that for a guy who will probably refuse to listen to logic and come up with a terrible, terrible counterargument as to why legitimate science is wrong and why his baseless claims are correct.
Good job taking what I posted out of context. I said any evidence is questionable: Videos can be forged, occult tomes tend to be entire bull shit, same with lore and personal experiences can be bull shited too. All I was stating is there is no way to know for sure if they do or don't exsist.
Now the question for this topic was: Do you believe they exsist?
I believe they do and my view shall not change.
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I believe there's a family of miniature pink-skinned knife-juggling elephants on the roof of my house, but I can't prove it.
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Saying that ghosts exist(in or out of a fourth dimension) is a pretty extraordinary claim, and extraordinary evidence is needed. You're trying to make a claim that something lives in a fourth dimension. If you believe that there are beings that reside in the fourth dimension, why not believe that there are creatures that live in the second dimension as well? We would be able to perceive them, but we have found none.(That one Star Trek episode doesn't count. >_>)
As for your haunting argument, show me evidence of a well documented haunting. Some of the most famous examples, like the Amityville Horror, Borley Rectory, and the Bell Witch all have been shown to be false and stories created to sell books.
Also, the anecdote you used was used by Carl Sagan to explain the concept of dimensions.
As for Doombringer, I didn't take your post out of context. You said it was questionable, I said that it was unusable. Also, this is the debate forum, not the post your opinion and leave it at that forum. You also say that we have no way to prove that they don't exist, which is true of any creature or entity, but if they did exist we can prove it, however seeing as there is no evidence, it is much more logical to say that they don't exist.
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I believe there's a family of miniature pink-skinned knife-juggling elephants on the roof of my house, but I can't prove it.
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(http://imageshack.us/m/577/5239/houseye.jpg)
smug
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL :D
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WTF Mate? No reason to believe!
ABC's of Dimensions
Life in 2nd dimension? Evidence please! Btw Carl Sagan.
Thanks for clearing up the Author name. The 'haunting argument' wasn't really an argument. It was a thought process which could be right or could be wrong. I believe it because it makes a lot of sense and is certainly a candidate for testing. Unfortunately, until the technology present to the public is likely unable to measure the fourth dimension, I doubt concrete evidence can be given. So in the mean time, I wish to give proof through a logical thought process similar to mathematicians. That is, with the given knowledge of the topic, experiment with out of the box ideas to form a logical thought process (in comparison to a theorem) which is proven through testing. Since I don't have a lot of money, nor am I an electrical engineer yet I can't test/build much, this is unable to happen now. Later on in life I will certain make this my hobby since it is extremely interesting.
It's not so much that something lives in the fourth dimension. It's more that these beings exist in the fourth dimension. Life can, logically, only exist in the third dimension. In the second dimension, life cannot exist because it is just a single plane with a thickness which is comparable to 1 pixel on a computer. The smallest biological life form is unicellular. Unicellular beings are made up of molecules which are higher and lower than each other which entails the z-axis must come into play in order for life to happen. (Lol at the Star Trek comment.) In the first dimension, let's be frank here, there's no way in hell life could exist. That shouldn't need logical backing (though I will provide it if needed.)
With all that being said. Everything/everyone we see and don't see has the ability to exist so long as it's there in some way, shape, or form. Third dimensional bodies, plants, and the like are what live and are only what live (unless I haven't considered something else that lives.) The souls inside are what animate our movement. Ghosts are simply fourth dimensional beings which exist without inhabiting a living body of the third dimension.
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Actually, muscles animate movement, not invisible life energy. >:C
I FEEL LIKE A FUCKING PARROT BECAUSE I WANNA SAY PROOF OF SOUL PLZ.
But at least parrots are cute. parrot
In response to the next post you make: proof plz.(Getting that out of the way, because that would have been my response more likely than not. Hooray for self parody.)
P.S. I also heard that the Loch Ness monster and Sasquatch live in the fourth dimension.
P.S.S This post is a messy. :<
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Anything is possible if you dont believe anything is possible think about how big the universe is dawg its big
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Well, I i had about 1 or 2 experiences in my life with "ghosts", but none confirmed to be really "ghosts", since I was young when those happened, and it wasn't something "impressive".