Conjoint Gaming [Game On]
CG Main => Debate Forum => Topic started by: Kwaurtz on January 20, 2011, 11:14:15 AM
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Since we have our origin of life thread going on, I decided to take a common element from it and expand on it:
Is there such a thing as god?
But before we argue this, let me define god for this argument:
"Classical theism holds that God possesses every possible perfection, including such qualities as omniscience, omnipotence, and perfect benevolence."
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I really don't believe in a god per say, however, I do believe in the thought of gods such as the Patron gods of Athens. But God, the almighty creator, is not really that much of a fact to me. If this so called god created Earth what created him?
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The problem is that there is no hard evidence to prove or to disprove the existence of the almighty creator. More and more we are discovering elements and counter elements in our world. How many of you knew that lightning created anti-matter? I doubt any of you did, as it first appeared last week in the news. As new knowledge comes to surface, its hard to retain the certain charges that alot of people try to retain.
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The news? That unhelpful bucket of telltale stories and such. I did know how anti-matter was created but such things like that are harmless unless idiots who became scientists poke at it. But then again how else would we discover things. And in turn to disproving and proving it's quite impossible to create yourself don't you think? Anyways life is controlled by the reproductive population, not a "god". Also if there was a god why has he not saved the poor, fed the homeless, sheltered the weak. People do random acts of kindness not god.
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Is there Gods? Maybe. One God? I pretty much doubt that. There's millions of religions out there each with it's own god or deity they worship. We may never find out the answer if there is or isn't any in life until we pass away.
I tend to be really neutral on religion.
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Yes but... It's stupid decisions like religion that cause war and hate. Understandably we have religion for the soul purpose of hope. Hope that one day when we become old and are ready to pass away we will be taken to a place of great happiness. Honestly I don't care. If I were to die tomorrow I would have just said fuck it and given up. Now religion is pretty much a breeding ground for those with the hope of a new tomorrow. So understand that most people will never give up religion until it's to late. But that's how the world is. The Mayan's believed that sacrifice was the only way to appease their gods. The conquestadors were on the basis of christian. The reason they fought was mostly their beliefs.
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maybe its like scion where every religion is actually true and uncle sam is a dietie.
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I really don't believe in a god per say, however, I do believe in the thought of gods such as the Patron gods of Athens. But God, the almighty creator, is not really that much of a fact to me. If this so called god created Earth what created him?
Then who created your gods? At some point down the line there has to be a final straw. Or you can go with an infinite theory which makes just as much sense as believing one and probably less.
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Humanity causes war and hate. Not religion. Religion is merely an idea conceived by humanity.
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God is similar to the concept of zero in mathematics. it's a symbol that denies the absence of meaning.
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If there is a god then why did he make me an atheist???
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Cause someone has to be disassociated...
Some consider me a "god," then I wake up.
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1. A hypothesis can either be unproven, proven, or disproven.
2. In order to be proven, a hypothesis must be tested.
3. Testing an alternative hypothesis (the position that the concept you are trying to prove is correct) involves rejecting a null hypothesis (the default position that the concept you are trying to prove is incorrect).
4. In order to accept the alternative hypothesis, you must reject the null hypothesis; failure to gather enough evidence to reject the null hypothesis means that it is logically superior to prefer the null hypothesis to the alternative hypothesis.
5. Hardcore statisticians say that failure to reject the null hypothesis does not mean we should assume that the null hypothesis is true (though it is more likely to be correct than the alternative hypothesis), but generally researchers equate failure to disprove the default with acceptance that the default is true.
Now, in God terms.
God has not been proven. It is the default position that, as an untested entity, God does not exist. Theists seek to prove the existence of God, or, more accurately, prove that the existence of God is more likely than the nonexistence of God. So:
H0: God does not exist.
HA: God exists.
You then gather data and make calculations—oh, wait, there is no empirical/statistical evidence rendering the null hypothesis remotely unlikely, let alone disproving it. Game over, theists. Enjoy your totally unjustified and randomly concocted superstitions while I go and play with my Legos.
What I also love is how theists try to isolate divinity from science, as if God is outside the properties of the universe. That God's existence precedes the universe is understandable, if wonky, but claiming that it is 100% impossible to measure him on a scientific level makes no sense when, in your claim that he personally constructed the universe, you admit that there is a concrete relationship between him and his creation.
"'Am I only a God nearby,' declares the Lord, 'and not a God far away? Who can hide in secret so that I cannot see them?' declares the Lord. 'Do not I fill heaven and earth?' declares the Lord." (Jeremiah 23:23–24)
"Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast." (Psalm 139:7–10)
Science explains everything, encompasses everything. God created everything, and God is present in everything. But, somehow, God is outside science. Sup, moon logic. You can't have your cake and eat it.
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If there is a god then why did he make me an atheist???
loool
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If there is a god then why did he make me an atheist???
The Jewish/Christian god gave us free will. He did not make you an aithiest, you did.
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If there is a god then why did he make me an atheist???
The Jewish/Christian god gave us free will. He did not make you an aithiest, you did.
I like how you ignore the post made by Crypto.
Also, its reffered to as the abrahamic god. Because he also applies to Islam.
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If there is a god then why did he make me an atheist???
The Jewish/Christian god gave us free will. He did not make you an aithiest, you did.
I like how you ignore the post made by Crypto.
Also, its reffered to as the abrahamic god. Because he also applies to Islam.
Abrahamic god then. Also, I skipped over it because I just wanted to reply to cearbear and it was a TL;DR situation
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I wonder what would happen if i went back in time and droped a photo of me and a big book of science and left it there...would they..
completly ignore whats inside and just think "science + photo =.....NEW GOD SCIENCE"
Read it and adapt advanced skills way back then and luanch into a era of new stuff
Use it to start a fire
or would one dude find it read it then right what he understands about it and that becomes the new 'bible' and what not.
Anyways i dont belive in God or gods. if i had to choose a religion it'd be that one with zues and hades and whatnot. Do i belive in a higher power? as in something that ~helped~ evolve us/become what we are today...sorta
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As for me I am a christian....
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Guys, you have to read and respond the posts that are given, Crypto made a post and none of you guys are countering it who hold this belief. If you are that lazy to give the common respect and courtesy that is required in a debate, then you are obviously posting in the wrong section.
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...Alright well, I'm an atheist so I've got my reasons in why I don't believe in a god. :)
I'd prefer to not argue about it, like I wanted to say. An ignorant man is one who tries to force his opinion onto others.
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"Opinions" both trivializes and misrepresents the debate.
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I do not believe in "God" but I believe in the old mythology Gods. Thor mostly ;D
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Pff, not this again.
I don't " believe " that there's NONE.
For the love of this community stop trying to convince each other from their FAITH.
Or whatever. I am sicked of this topics over and over again.
Sorry to say, but its has to go the hard way (yes that rhymes >_>)
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I do not believe in "God" but I believe in the old mythology Gods. Thor mostly ;D
HELL YEAH THOR!!!!!!!!!!! AND ODIN !!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA SHROOMS + BATTLEAXE = HELLYEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Pff, not this again.
I don't " believe " that there's NONE.
For the love of this community stop trying to convince each other from their FAITH.
Or whatever. I am sicked of this topics over and over again.
Sorry to say, but its has to go the hard way (yes that rhymes >_>)
THROW THE NON BELIEVER IN THE LION PIT!
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"Opinions" both trivializes and misrepresents the debate.
But isn't that what a debate is? Just opinions flying around?
I don't see any hard facts being thrown out here.
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No, a debate involves opinions backed by mountains of logic or empirical evidence. Each side is almost certain that the other side is wrong because (gasp) one side usually is wrong.
Pff, not this again.
I don't " believe " that there's NONE.
For the love of this community stop trying to convince each other from their FAITH.
Or whatever. I am sicked of this topics over and over again.
Sorry to say, but its has to go the hard way (yes that rhymes >_>)
So because you don't like using your brain and paying attention to important issues in the world that you live in, you want us to stop using our brains and stop paying attention to important issues in the world that we live in. If everyone was like you then nothing would ever get done. Just because you don't have the interest in or the mental capacity for argument doesn't mean you should tell everyone else to shut up.
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And the irony is that we'll never know who's right and who's wrong. And to be fair, I have yet to see anyone post proof that god does/doesn't exist.
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You have no idea how much self-control it takes to keep myself from saying things to you that would get me banned.
I JUST posted scientific/statistical proof that there is no reason whatsoever to believe in God. It is impossible to know whether or not a concept that can't be disproved because there are no points supporting it that you CAN disprove. There is no reason to question the default assumption that there is no God, so practically speaking you may as well say it is true that God does not exist.
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as long as crypto's souless soul raoms this earth looking to make people sad and suck off their fun and happiniess i belief in on gawd
someone once said
"DER IF NO GAWD ROUN SO HE AINT REL"
- that one guy
I have power with my words i made Crypto convert from Catholicisim to Athiesim
I WON THE DEBATE WITH CRYPTO IT TOOK NEARLY A YEAR BUT I WON IT WHEN HE CHANGED I WAS SO PROUD OF MYSELF THAT HE LOST AND I WON
from here on out please keep in mind that a simple wholegrains consistently reliable data mind fucked crypto into submission
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There is a "god," for everyone...
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All I know is that science will never prove that god does not exist because of the question "What if God made Science?"
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YOU ARE SO.
FUCKING.
STUPID.
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All I know is that science will never prove that god does not exist because of the question "What if God made Science?"
/facepalm
That is ASSUMING there is a God of course.
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i am an atheist. however, i am extremely receptive to the possibility that we are all simulations on a massively powerful computer, and that what we might consider "gods" might simply be our programmers, who, to the uninformed and easily influenced ancient masses, might be seen as gods due to their abilities to warp and manipulate reality seemingly at will.
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simulations < thoughts
all I shall say in that reply
in other news
if you are to prove god, it would be like proving the existence of a graviton.
you might have seen it, but no1 else would ever get to understand that, it was a graviton you saw.
(graviton mass less theoretical particle, that according to one part of string theory might be able to go from one plane to another)
so umm just lay of it in other words
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i am an atheist. however, i am extremely receptive to the possibility that we are all simulations on a massively powerful computer, and that what we might consider "gods" might simply be our programmers, who, to the uninformed and easily influenced ancient masses, might be seen as gods due to their abilities to warp and manipulate reality seemingly at will.
That is equivalent to believing in God.
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i am an atheist. however, i am extremely receptive to the possibility that we are all simulations on a massively powerful computer, and that what we might consider "gods" might simply be our programmers, who, to the uninformed and easily influenced ancient masses, might be seen as gods due to their abilities to warp and manipulate reality seemingly at will.
That is equivalent to believing in God.
BUT IT SOUNDS SO COOOOOOL! 8) ;D
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You have no idea how much self-control it takes to keep myself from saying things to you that would get me banned.
Well sorry.
I've had the awareness of a troll this week.
And why are you such a hostile person?
I don't want to argue about whether or not a god exists considering the large following of christians/catholics [specifically]. And like I said earlier, only the ignorant argue about religion.
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You are genuinely retarded.
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You have no idea how much self-control it takes to keep myself from saying things to you that would get me banned.
Well sorry.
I've had the awareness of a troll this week.
And why are you such a hostile person?
I don't want to argue about whether or not a god exists considering the large following of christians/catholics [specifically]. And like I said earlier, only the ignorant argue about religion.
You are right in the fact that only ignorant argue about religion.
Because through argument one gains knowledge and perspective to fill that void of ignorance. To be ignorant means to be unknowing. By arguing one can state their belief, their reason, and their logic, and thus we may be able to come to understand one another and learn something about ourselves that we may not have known.
If you were trying to use that as an insult, I suggest you drop it. and Crypto play nice :(
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flower.gif This thread is full of kicks and giggles.
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You are right in the fact that only ignorant argue about religion.
Because through argument one gains knowledge and perspective to fill that void of ignorance. To be ignorant means to be unknowing. By arguing one can state their belief, their reason, and their logic, and thus we may be able to come to understand one another and learn something about ourselves that we may not have known.
If you were trying to use that as an insult, I suggest you drop it. and Crypto play nice :(
I'm not trying to insult him, what I'm TRYING to say is that he's trying to shove his belief down everyone's throat without listening to their reasoning behind it as well. I refuse to argue with you either, because if I did, I know that someone's going to bitch and moan about MY reasoning/logic.
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I have listened to their reasoning. I have rebutted it. And I have repeated the basic mathematical and scientific concepts that disprove it in general.
And stop fucking saying that I have any "belief" about religion. Atheism is a rejection of all religious "beliefs."
A1. Person A buys a lollipop.
A2. Person A buys something.
B1. Person B buys nothing.
B2. Person B . . . um, OH YEAH, PERSON B BUYS NOTHING, HAHAHA.
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Definitions of belief on the Web:
any cognitive content held as true
impression: a vague idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying"
Atheism is the belief of no god. Not hard to figure out.
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Lack of belief in something is not itself a belief.
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-Sigh- Why must we do this? Can't we just stop?
A belief is the mental acceptance of a claim as truth. Therefore, it makes atheism a belief.
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In the case of religion we treat belief as involving placing trust in something not supported by scientific evidence.
I will not stop until all theists either change their minds or are placed in gas chambers.
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I think being shot on spot would be an easier method to get rid of someone. :P
And to be fair, I've never actually heard of what you just stated. So I suppose you win, this time.
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I have to agree that there is some level of ignorance to arguing about religion. Especially when you're being that hostile, crypto. I mean I agree with most of what you say, but when you call someone stupid, they stop listening to you, rendering the argument useless, and a waste of time. This doesn't mean you shouldn't try, but all it does is start conflict and flaming. Any argument on religion that doesn't involve flaming, usually just ends when someone gets bored. I'm sure that a majority of the time, nobody's opinion changes, online their disposition towards the other debater.
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Any way you cut it religion is a really touchy subject....
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religion is merely humanity knowing that their life is futile and useless, so they turn to a higher power and hope to live for ever.
hell maybe the reason for life, is to keep humanity going until a way to life forever is discovered lol
the hell do i know
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That was deep jorgen. Im still not a athiest though trollface
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i am an atheist. however, i am extremely receptive to the possibility that we are all simulations on a massively powerful computer, and that what we might consider "gods" might simply be our programmers, who, to the uninformed and easily influenced ancient masses, might be seen as gods due to their abilities to warp and manipulate reality seemingly at will.
That is equivalent to believing in God.
no, because i don't actually believe this, i just think it's a very real possibility. and even if it is true, these programmers wouldn't be gods per say, but just different people with different motivations and mindsets, but still flawed.
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(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs670.snc4/61081_426031144354_523479354_5056036_7479786_n.jpg)
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Lets see, I shall just say one thing I have always had problems with.
Heaven and hell, lets break them down heaven: place in which you feel nothing but pleasure (if I might add it is suposed to be so good that you've felt nothing like it on earth)
hell: place in which you feel nothing but pain (if i might add it is suposed to be so painfull that you can't even imagine it)
lets see, people who remain faithfull normally have had a rather okey life, not to much pain not to many problems.
people who can't remain faithfull are spread apart, but many are those who have lived a painfull life filled with large problems and can't believe someone that powerfull would just sit back and watch.
Is that fair, think about it those who have lived good lives get better lives in heaven, while those who have lived horible lives will get a worse life in hell.
An all powerfull all knowing who sais he is all love, would not be that unjust it is just logics.
Even if I was god I would not make something so horrible, it is just plainly wrong and odd
nice quote kwaurtz
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Im agnostic, but do believe in god, i just hate it where people say religion can cure all. Hell, there as dumbshit as the capitalist. Religion causes more problems than alcohol, drugs, sex, and political arguments combines.
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SERIUSLY!
We need to ban religion topics because then the science types and aethiest get on and start yelling. THERE IS NO PROOF OF GOD THERE FOR HE DOES NOT EXSIST! While The religious people are saying. But what if he just wants you to think that way?
FOR Heavens/Hells/Gods/Aethiesm/Sciences..... FOR THE SAKE OF HUMANITY STOP BRINGING RELIGION UP!!!!
Religion + Science = WAR.
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You sir are wrong, very few atheists here have yelled like bigots, although some have most have not.
Please keep your rage away from a debate thread, and move on dear sir/madame.
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It's not the fact that a God isn't proven, it's the fact that the theory of any God has been disproven.
In fact, MOST Gods were created to explain things people normally couldn't explain..Like Zeus and his thunderbolts for example.
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Im agnostic, thats the way the internet should be. just dont bother with religion, cause not everybodys gonna agree on one thing
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I have to agree that there is some level of ignorance to arguing about religion. Especially when you're being that hostile, crypto. I mean I agree with most of what you say, but when you call someone stupid, they stop listening to you, rendering the argument useless, and a waste of time. This doesn't mean you shouldn't try, but all it does is start conflict and flaming. Any argument on religion that doesn't involve flaming, usually just ends when someone gets bored. I'm sure that a majority of the time, nobody's opinion changes, online their disposition towards the other debater.
Sure. I usually argue for the sake of argument, not because I expect to convince anyone, though that would be a pleasant surprise. But it baffles me that people read this thread, ignore and completely fail to rebut the huge post I made in it, and then spew the exact same nonsense that I argued against in that post. I'm not going to say that I don't deserve to be criticized for hostility, but why do I get castigated when things like this—
All I know is that science will never prove that god does not exist because of the question "What if God made Science?"
—are let off the hook?
i am an atheist. however, i am extremely receptive to the possibility that we are all simulations on a massively powerful computer, and that what we might consider "gods" might simply be our programmers, who, to the uninformed and easily influenced ancient masses, might be seen as gods due to their abilities to warp and manipulate reality seemingly at will.
That is equivalent to believing in God.
no, because i don't actually believe this, i just think it's a very real possibility. and even if it is true, these programmers wouldn't be gods per say, but just different people with different motivations and mindsets, but still flawed.
I mean that believing in programmers is the same as believing in God in that there's no evidence for it.
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And now a separate post for Dante because I don't want it to get lost in the chain of quotes.
SERIUSLY!
We need to ban religion topics because then the science types and aethiest get on and start yelling. THERE IS NO PROOF OF GOD THERE FOR HE DOES NOT EXSIST! While The religious people are saying. But what if he just wants you to think that way?
FOR Heavens/Hells/Gods/Aethiesm/Sciences..... FOR THE SAKE OF HUMANITY STOP BRINGING RELIGION UP!!!!
Religion + Science = WAR.
What the absolute fuck are you doing in this thread? Why don't you tell everyone to stop bringing up stem cell research, or global warming, or terrorism, or poverty, or genocide, because debates about those topics only cause "WAR"? Once again, nobody is forcing you to read this thread. You have every right to stay out of it. So why the fuck do you come into the thread, ignore everything posted in it, and repeatedly make posts bitching at us to stop using our brains while you let your own brain fester in a heap of your own shit?
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Me being an atheist, the uh-dur answer is of course I don't BELIEVE in god/s. As for if there really is one, that cannot be determined at the moment, your argue here is pointless seeing as there is no evidence to go either way. First off, Christianity is based on a book that could have been written just like any other book, except this one flourished into a Religion. Buddhism was made by a guy that could have been high on some Indian weed... and Islam, I have no idea really.... But don't think I've decided my vote just yet because Atheists have no proof that there is/isn't a god, not a single lick of it. So as I conclude this explanation of why I think both sides of this argument are arrogant not to realize that neither of them have proof to make their religion the "absolute" one, I ask you, Do you want to waste your time in something that could be real or fake? An entire life spent unknowing and not capable of learning, is worth nothing compared to a life of knowing and learning. As for me I call myself an "Atheist", but I could care less in folk tales
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Does it matter to be wrong in the end? It's whateer makes you happy. Believe? Cool. Don't? Cool too.
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Depends...In the Christian/Catholic bible, I'm pretty sure that you'd be placed in purgatory if you were atheist or whatever...Considering that their God is supposed to be forgiving and in the end sends people to be tortured in Hell, I don't think it's true. I've seen MANY flaws with the concept of the Christian/Catholic [All the same] God...
So, I think if there was a deity/god/whatever, It wouldn't be under the Christian/Catholic definition of God. Personally, until I see some evidence that there IS a God, I truly won't change my mind on my religion. In fact, there will never be evidence of God...SO I can proudly say that I'm going to stay an atheist unless my partner wants me to change my religion for them, which any half-decent being would do if you loved them.
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Cmon guys, letz not argue on the forums bout religun. We mite start wars.
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The war has been started smug