Conjoint Gaming [Game On]

CG Administration Section => Admin Department => Admin Abuse => Topic started by: ๖ۣۜNexus on December 29, 2013, 07:42:45 PM

Title: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: ๖ۣۜNexus on December 29, 2013, 07:42:45 PM
Name of player reporting abuse: Many people who are fed up

Steam ID, to facilitate unban if applicable: -

Server: TTT

Admin who is suspected of the abuse: Billy

In which server did the abuse occur?: TTT

What occurred, what did the abuse consist of:
Overtime people have complained and collected evidence of Billy:

What time and day did it happen (put down your time zone too): Continual over time.

Please link any evidence:

Steam conversations with non-admins: http://imgur.com/a/uMwNo (http://imgur.com/a/uMwNo)

Various Screenshots and reasons. These belong to other people and do not originate from me:
"I noticed the TTT server was populated. Decided to check who was on. Saw Billy had a -13 score. Came on to this:"
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50006.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50006.jpg)

"Here are a few demos (.dem files) I recorded while Billy was on the server. He was eventually banned for glitching on Christmas Town after we - X and I - warned the entire server multiple times not to go on the roof."

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_2.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_2.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_3.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_3.dem)

"He did not do his job on the server at all. There was an RDM and Leave I reported twice (files below) that he did not do anything about. I doubt he was even getting logs, as there were multiple instances where I would have slain - or banned - someone and he did not take any action, including reports of RDM. He barely used admin chat or his own chat, if at all, to circumvent any mic spamming/singing or rulebreaking, and even went so far as to sing himself multiple times. He was also part of RDM at least once or twice, either on the giving or receiving end, or watched RDM occur and didn't take care of it."
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0007.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0007.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0008.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0008.jpg)

A bunch of screenshots about Billy:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iLVZKd2J2aGVfTm8/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iLVZKd2J2aGVfTm8/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRkc0R0lFQlNDQ0k/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRkc0R0lFQlNDQ0k/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iOF9jMFQ3WWtGUVU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iOF9jMFQ3WWtGUVU/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ibkdLVEZCVHdGbkU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ibkdLVEZCVHdGbkU/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ickk2RnlmajJJd0U/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ickk2RnlmajJJd0U/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iNmJ5VUFfV0ZIN0k/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iNmJ5VUFfV0ZIN0k/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iajB3SjZseGlSeE0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iajB3SjZseGlSeE0/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX2NibV9DVzVxek0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX2NibV9DVzVxek0/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRVlIeWxTNUpPN00/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRVlIeWxTNUpPN00/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ia1E4dk9kcjFoRkk/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ia1E4dk9kcjFoRkk/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iQWw0M1ZzSmVXQTA/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iQWw0M1ZzSmVXQTA/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iY293OWhMNHNhcDQ/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iY293OWhMNHNhcDQ/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iU1I2dkNuWjdiR0E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iU1I2dkNuWjdiR0E/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX1RRaWc0M3FuSnc/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX1RRaWc0M3FuSnc/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieWtsRjJJY2d1M2c/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieWtsRjJJY2d1M2c/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idDBIcmt4eGFXRUU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idDBIcmt4eGFXRUU/edit?usp=sharing)

.dem Files

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iZzVFV19GY2RUT1E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iZzVFV19GY2RUT1E/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iVWlwblgtOHBpZm8/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iVWlwblgtOHBpZm8/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iUU84aFJXV20wQUE/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iUU84aFJXV20wQUE/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSk13YXVfZzE0RDg/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSk13YXVfZzE0RDg/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieXdpQ01lWV9mWVU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieXdpQ01lWV9mWVU/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idVViRW9FRVVuVFU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idVViRW9FRVVuVFU/edit?usp=sharing)

Some damage logs

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iT201Vm1ySDQxZE0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iT201Vm1ySDQxZE0/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieGt2OVZweGwtNDg/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieGt2OVZweGwtNDg/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSVZ0YVVFQ0UxQkk/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSVZ0YVVFQ0UxQkk/edit?usp=sharing)

This is concerning the recent ban

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50008.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50008.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50007.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50007.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20009.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20009.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20010.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20010.jpg)

More .dem

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_2.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_2.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_3.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_3.dem)


Additional comments:

I haven't personally taken a look at any of the .dem files but they supposedly relate to the case.

A lot of this isn't necessarily abuse of power's, but reasons he shouldn't have admin privileges.

Requesting removal of powers
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Christovski on December 29, 2013, 07:51:54 PM
I've heard numerous complaints of RDM but with no evidence. 

Finally someone's got some proof that might put this to rest.  I don't believe this is a +1/-1 situation Rainbow, this seems like something that is up to Cortez and/or the CLs, unless one of those folks says I'm wrong on this of course.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: theyankees213 on December 29, 2013, 07:54:31 PM
I constantly get reports of problems, but everytime I get on theres none, so hes been doing this without admins on. i was told there was alot of proof being gathered, glad this finally stops.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Tictactoe360 on December 29, 2013, 08:01:28 PM
Holy hell that's a lot of evidence. How long has this been going in for? Because I dont ever recall having problems with him when I played (like 2 months ago).

I've heard so many horror stories of what Billy does when nobodies there to watch him. The most common thing I've heard of is him RDMing/TeamKilling and refusing to slay himself, but the moment someone kills him it's an instant slay.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Christovski on December 29, 2013, 08:01:52 PM
Holy hell that's a lot of evidence. How long has this been going in for? Because I dont ever recall having problems with him when I played (like 2 months ago).

The oldest reports I was told of (but they had no evidence) wasn't long after he was promoted to Reg, 3 months or so ago.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 29, 2013, 08:10:11 PM
Wow. That's a lot of stuff.

The only defense I have is - a few of those screenshots are most certainly not of me. Most of them are, but there's a few that just aren't. Especially the "blue overlord" thing, I have absolutely zero idea what that was about. I never slap-spam people during the round. The first half of those screenshots (specifically the ones where I'm George Washington) were BEFORE I had even re-applied to become admin, so I wouldn't count those as valid. Those were from a very long time ago, and I don't RDM like that anymore. And before you say, "but yes you do, look at the most recent logs from richland and rooftops!"

Ask the victims TastyBagel and PaperClips, we were all playing around with barrels in the basement, and they were okay with it. There were only like 5-6 people on at the time; it was late at night.

With the whole spam-slap / continuously banning an id thing -- that was an accident. There were only like 3 people on, and I was slapping the winner (he was ok with it) and I accidentally pressed up twice instead of once in console, bringing up my last ulx ban instead of a ulx slap, and it banned the person I had just banned over and over again. But that isn't even really relevant.

There was a thread a while ago on the issue of slapping and slaying after the round was over, and Cortez himself said it was okay as long as the "victim" was alright with it - and this was always the case for me. Whenever someone said stop, I'd stop.

Despite all of that, why has no one ever brought any of this up with me? That seems unfair. If I'm doing things you don't like.. Why don't you tell me? I'm open to criticism and if what I've done was wrong, then I'd be more than willing to change the way I play and admin. The only person to ever voice their concerns with me was HerpDerpMike, and we had thorough discussion and I've changed since then. When he tells me that I've been being a little shit (no one else has btw) I take a step back and look at what I've done that was wrong, and change it.

I haven't watched any of the .dems, but I suppose I will soon.

Also, most of the time I play, there are 2-4 other admins on, some of which are vets or CLs, so I generally let them do the admining because they are higher ranking and thus would make what I assume would be the best decisions. If I'm the only admin on, I always take RDM reports and kick/ban/slay rule breakers, so I have no idea what that talk is about.

I'm not saying I'm the perfect admin in any way at all. I honestly didn't know I had so many complaints against me. I never purposefully abused my powers to spite anyone, or ruin the game or anyone else's fun. I wish people told me earlier. I'm not the kind of guy to just keep doing wrong if people tell me about it. I feel like half of this "evidence" wouldn't even be here if someone - anyone - nipped my shit in the bud. I didn't even realize I was being this much of an asshat until I saw all of this.

--

EDIT:
I've heard so many horror stories of what Billy does when nobodies there to watch him. The most common thing I've heard of is him RDMing/TeamKilling and refusing to slay himself, but the moment someone kills him it's an instant slay.

I know for a fact this is a lie, because if you've EVER played TTT with me, you'd know I literally never slay anyone for killing me, unless they RDMed other people too, in the same round. I ALWAYS tell people it's okay, and move on, because I don't care if people kill me.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Cortez (Mr. T. FOO!) on December 29, 2013, 08:12:45 PM
I've heard numerous complaints of RDM but with no evidence. 

Finally someone's got some proof that might put this to rest.  I don't believe this is a +1/-1 situation Rainbow, this seems like something that is up to Cortez and/or the CLs, unless one of those folks says I'm wrong on this of course.

I don't want +1/-1 on anything related to ban appeals or admin abuse, I don't know how many times I have to say this. I do want relevent opinions and evidence.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Pillz on December 29, 2013, 08:23:51 PM
For whatever reasons, I think Billy is still a friend of the community; and do not think he deserves a permaban. Removal of his admin would be a sufficient enough punishment, and at the most I can see a 3 month ban making sense.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 29, 2013, 08:30:25 PM
I personally believe that this thread is unfair. As I've said before -- no one, and I mean NO ONE told me about ANY of this prior to this thread. How am I supposed to know that what I'm doing is bad if no one tells me?

And once again, some of those screenshots are NOT of me - and some of them aren't even incriminating. In a lot of those damage logs, you can clearly see that I was damaged first, or the person I attacked hurt and/or killed someone prior. So why are they being posted as evidence of RDM? They're clearly self defense.. And I haven't even gotten to the .dems yet.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Mr_Rainbow on December 29, 2013, 08:38:18 PM
no one, and I mean NO ONE told me about ANY of this prior to this thread. How am I supposed to know that what I'm doing is bad if no one tells me?

That is complete bullshit. When I was playing on the map with all the toys and stuff, (where you're tiny and shit) I told you about the rdm you did to me, and I think Ralph and Scooby did as well. So don't make bullshit excuses and try and get out of this.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Christovski on December 29, 2013, 08:45:09 PM
You're an admin Billy and should know the rules.  Not to mention actually enforce them.  A lot of the above came from other admins who went undercover.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: theyankees213 on December 29, 2013, 08:46:05 PM
For whatever reasons, I think Billy is still a friend of the community; and do not think he deserves a permaban. Removal of his admin would be a sufficient enough punishment, and at the most I can see a 3 month ban making sense.

Serious? I dont think he needs any ban, except the week he got recently. Losing admin(if he does) is punishing enough. I could see 2 at the MOST for some of the rdming hes done, but most of it is neglect/ minor trolling and not bannable.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 29, 2013, 08:50:28 PM
no one, and I mean NO ONE told me about ANY of this prior to this thread. How am I supposed to know that what I'm doing is bad if no one tells me?

That is complete bullshit. When I was playing on the map with all the toys and stuff, (where you're tiny and shit) I told you about the rdm you did to me, Ralph, and I think Scooby did as well. So don't make bullshit excuses and try and get out of this.

What? What are you even talking about? Do you have some sort of grudge against me? I don't even know you - I've played with you maybe once or twice, and whatever I did to you, it apparently isn't as bad as you're making it out to be, since you never reported it or, idunno, brought it up with be in PMs on steam or on the forums. I may have RDMed you once or twice - I can't really recall, but are you meaning to tell me I didn't slay myself after? We might have a miscommunication here. Maybe you felt that you were RDMed, and I felt it was justified, or something. I don't know. But I'm not here to make your game any less fun, so I apologize, but attacking me and accusing me of lying isn't nice. I have no reason to lie on the internet - especially not on CG, where I've devoted over four years of my life to.

---
EDIT:

You're an admin Billy and should know the rules.  Not to mention actually enforce them.  A lot of the above came from other admins who went undercover.

Yes, I do know the rules, and yes - I do enforce them. What does that have to do with anything?
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Christovski on December 29, 2013, 09:00:00 PM
Yes, I do know the rules, and yes - I do enforce them. What does that have to do with anything?

The above evidence is of you breaking the rules.  Ergo if you know the rules and enforce them, you should not have broken them as the OP shows
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 29, 2013, 09:06:39 PM
Yes, I do know the rules, and yes - I do enforce them. What does that have to do with anything?

The above evidence is of you breaking the rules.  Ergo if you know the rules and enforce them, you should not have broken them as the OP shows

Have you watched any of those .dems? I've seen five of them now, and none of them show any evidence at all of me breaking any rules. 90% of those damage logs clearly show self-defense. Only very few of these show me actually breaking any rules, and even then that does not warrant bans and removals of power. I just spoke to otterfiend and he saw exactly what I saw - a bunch of nothing. This thread aggravates me because a lot of it is clearly biased against me, for most of it doesn't show anything at all.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Guztav. on December 29, 2013, 09:09:56 PM
His admin needs to be removed, period. Stop acting so innocent Billy. Using "no one told me what I was doing is wrong", is not an excuse. You've been here longer than lots of us, you fully well know the rules and instead of breaking them, you should be enforcing them.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 29, 2013, 09:31:21 PM
My responses are in bold.

Steam conversations with non-admins: http://imgur.com/a/uMwNo (http://imgur.com/a/uMwNo)

I can't speak for the first two, but the last one was HerpDerpMike (I spoke with him earlier) and he said those complaints were before he spoke to me about those things, and I stopped after and he hasn't had any complaints since.

Various Screenshots and reasons. These belong to other people and do not originate from me:
"I noticed the TTT server was populated. Decided to check who was on. Saw Billy had a -13 score. Came on to this:"
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50006.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50006.jpg)

This was a very circumstantial map. My karma was low due to RDMs that happened in self-defense. False callouts, others RDMing and people shooting barrels that I was holding.

"Here are a few demos (.dem files) I recorded while Billy was on the server. He was eventually banned for glitching on Christmas Town after we - X and I - warned the entire server multiple times not to go on the roof."

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_2.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_2.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_3.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_3.dem)

None of these are of me glitching on Christmastown.. And none of these show evidence of me breaking any rules, either.

side note: I've only been on the roof once, and it went down like this: I went on the roof, jumped up and down, then killed myself and went afk. I was banned by Merrill for 60 minutes for it. Yes yes, I understand, I should never have gone on the roof in the first place. I won't do that again. For any reason.


"He did not do his job on the server at all. There was an RDM and Leave I reported twice (files below) that he did not do anything about. I doubt he was even getting logs, as there were multiple instances where I would have slain - or banned - someone and he did not take any action, including reports of RDM. He barely used admin chat or his own chat, if at all, to circumvent any mic spamming/singing or rulebreaking, and even went so far as to sing himself multiple times. He was also part of RDM at least once or twice, either on the giving or receiving end, or watched RDM occur and didn't take care of it."
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0007.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0007.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0008.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0008.jpg)

Did you guys even see these screenshots? Unsub killed someone first, and THEN I started damaging him. How is this RDM? And then you can clearly see, Wellrgr crowbars me (they do 20 damage) and I killed him for it. Once again: HOW IS THIS EVIDENCE? WHERE DID I RDM? This is the reason why I feel like this thread is biased towards me, for no reason.

A bunch of screenshots about Billy:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iLVZKd2J2aGVfTm8/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iLVZKd2J2aGVfTm8/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRkc0R0lFQlNDQ0k/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRkc0R0lFQlNDQ0k/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iOF9jMFQ3WWtGUVU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iOF9jMFQ3WWtGUVU/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ibkdLVEZCVHdGbkU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ibkdLVEZCVHdGbkU/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ickk2RnlmajJJd0U/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ickk2RnlmajJJd0U/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iNmJ5VUFfV0ZIN0k/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iNmJ5VUFfV0ZIN0k/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iajB3SjZseGlSeE0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iajB3SjZseGlSeE0/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX2NibV9DVzVxek0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX2NibV9DVzVxek0/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRVlIeWxTNUpPN00/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRVlIeWxTNUpPN00/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ia1E4dk9kcjFoRkk/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ia1E4dk9kcjFoRkk/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iQWw0M1ZzSmVXQTA/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iQWw0M1ZzSmVXQTA/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iY293OWhMNHNhcDQ/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iY293OWhMNHNhcDQ/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iU1I2dkNuWjdiR0E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iU1I2dkNuWjdiR0E/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX1RRaWc0M3FuSnc/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX1RRaWc0M3FuSnc/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieWtsRjJJY2d1M2c/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieWtsRjJJY2d1M2c/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idDBIcmt4eGFXRUU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idDBIcmt4eGFXRUU/edit?usp=sharing)

This is a lot of screenshots. I'm not going to review every single one of them. I've looked at all of them, and I've seen that 10/15 of them do not show be breaking any rules at all. TEN OUT OF FIFTEEN. The other five are screenshots of my karma, my steam id, and one of them (the comment about the black man penis) was very stupid of me, and I'm sorry for that, but I've never used admin chat for stupid things like that after.


.dem Files

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iZzVFV19GY2RUT1E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iZzVFV19GY2RUT1E/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iVWlwblgtOHBpZm8/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iVWlwblgtOHBpZm8/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iUU84aFJXV20wQUE/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iUU84aFJXV20wQUE/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSk13YXVfZzE0RDg/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSk13YXVfZzE0RDg/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieXdpQ01lWV9mWVU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieXdpQ01lWV9mWVU/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idVViRW9FRVVuVFU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idVViRW9FRVVuVFU/edit?usp=sharing)

I watched every single one of these .dems and literally none of them show evidence of me breaking rules.

Some damage logs

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iT201Vm1ySDQxZE0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iT201Vm1ySDQxZE0/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieGt2OVZweGwtNDg/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieGt2OVZweGwtNDg/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSVZ0YVVFQ0UxQkk/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSVZ0YVVFQ0UxQkk/edit?usp=sharing)

Only one of these - the first one - show honest evidence of RDM. I don't know why I damaged that guy, it was a very long time ago. But is one RDM a ban and removal of powers? I don't believe so. The second one is just my steam id. no evidence there. The third one shows that I was a detective. One kill, I have no idea why I killed that guy, so that's one RDM. I'm not even going to give myself the benefit of the doubt and say he was doing something traitorous. Let's just say I flat-out RDMed him. The second one I killed was a traitor. Chances are I attacked him because he pulled out a traitor weapon? As you can see, he killed me without me doing any more damage to him after, so he probably had an AK, or something. Once again -- not evidence. 

This is concerning the recent ban

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50008.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50008.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50007.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50007.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20009.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20009.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20010.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20010.jpg)

I've already explained this. In the first one, TastyBagel was false KOS'd, so I killed him. Milkman attacked him too - and me - in what I assume is crossfire. The second one shows that I've killed two people -- where? in a basement filled with barrels. I've already told you, and they can confirm, it was late at night, not many people were on and we were playing with the barrels. The third one isn't evidence, it's just a picture of my banning. The fourth one is me slapping paperclips and bagels after the round was over - and they were okay with it. How is this evidence?

More .dem

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_2.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_2.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_3.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_3.dem)


Additional comments:

I haven't personally taken a look at any of the .dem files but they supposedly relate to the case.

A lot of this isn't necessarily abuse of power's,


Read this. Nexus didn't even look at these. He says here, himself, he has no idea if these are even valid or not.

but reasons he shouldn't have admin privileges.

With what I just said, he clearly hasn't seen the dems, so he can't really say if they're reasons or not.


I feel like someone here really doesn't want me to be an admin. I don't know what I've said or done to these people, but hopefully after seeing these, you'll see I'm really not as bad as these few people are saying I am. I have many friends - regulars and admins on TTT - that will tell you themselves that I am really not that bad. I make my mistakes, yes. We all do. And I'm sorry about that. I can fix my mistakes and we can move on. But to throw all of this at me, call me a liar and a blatant, continuous rule breaker? No. I'm not going to stand for that, because it's not true.

--
EDIT:
His admin needs to be removed, period. Stop acting so innocent Billy. Using "no one told me what I was doing is wrong", is not an excuse. You've been here longer than lots of us, you fully well know the rules and instead of breaking them, you should be enforcing them.

I'm not acting innocent at all. I never once even said I was innocent. I don't have to. Everything I just posted clearly speaks for itself. Out of all of that, after removing everything that doesn't have any real evidence, you'll see maybe two or three honest RDMs, and a few idiotic admin comments that I've since stopped making.

Let's pretend I never said "no one told me what I was doing wrong". Fine. Even then, I've only broken so many rules... And why are you guys acting like I broke them on purpose? Jesus christ, you guys are treating me like a stranger. You know my behavior and mannerisms. I almost always slay myself if I RDM. I kill myself THAT round, AND I nrslay myself for the next. And I do enforce the rules. Stop saying I don't.

It's like you guys are just looking at the damage logs, seeing my name in them and going "yep that's RDM".
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: UnknownError on December 29, 2013, 09:34:57 PM
While what Billy did was distasteful, there is something else that bothers me in this situation. Why did no admin talk to Billy and say "Hey, you're doing a shit job." It seems like a few admins/regs were out to get him. We didnt have to go as far as filing abuse claims when this should have been caught log ago. When I worked with Billy he was doing a fine job.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Sejo Mino on December 29, 2013, 09:39:36 PM
no one, and I mean NO ONE told me about ANY of this prior to this thread. How am I supposed to know that what I'm doing is bad if no one tells me?

That is complete bullshit. When I was playing on the map with all the toys and stuff, (where you're tiny and shit) I told you about the rdm you did to me, Ralph, and I think Scooby did as well. So don't make bullshit excuses and try and get out of this.

What? What are you even talking about? Do you have some sort of grudge against me? I don't even know you - I've played with you maybe once or twice, and whatever I did to you, it apparently isn't as bad as you're making it out to be, since you never reported it or, idunno, brought it up with be in PMs on steam or on the forums. I may have RDMed you once or twice - I can't really recall, but are you meaning to tell me I didn't slay myself after? We might have a miscommunication here. Maybe you felt that you were RDMed, and I felt it was justified, or something. I don't know. But I'm not here to make your game any less fun, so I apologize, but attacking me and accusing me of lying isn't nice. I have no reason to lie on the internet - especially not on CG, where I've devoted over four years of my life to.

---
EDIT:

You're an admin Billy and should know the rules.  Not to mention actually enforce them.  A lot of the above came from other admins who went undercover.

Yes, I do know the rules, and yes - I do enforce them. What does that have to do with anything?
Wait a Second, 4 Years and yet you still troll, rdm, and break rulez. WOW. also You enforcing the rules has basically everything to do with you, and everything that has been here. But, 4 years should mean that you will not rdm, or any other type of bannable offense that you have. From some of these they are quite recent. So either you had amnesia for the past 4 years or something.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 29, 2013, 09:44:41 PM
Wait a Second, 4 Years and yet you still troll, rdm, and break rulez. WOW. also You enforcing the rules has basically everything to do with you, and everything that has been here. But, 4 years should mean that you will not rdm, or any other type of bannable offense that you have. From some of these they are quite recent. So either you had amnesia for the past 4 years or something.

Oh. my. GOD. Did you even read ANYTHING I JUST posted? Please, PLEASE just LOOK AT THE SCREENSHOTS FOR YOURSELF. WATCH THE DEMS FOR YOURSELF. It's like you're all blindly reading the negative without doing any research first, and coming to the conclusion that I'm "a trolling, RDMing rulebreaker".

Have I ever been discharged as an admin for breaking rules? No. Every single time my admin has been removed, it was for being inactive, and I've spoken to Cortez about it. I never thought I'd have to clear this up with everyone because I always thought no one really needed to know, but fine. My mom has had breast cancer twice over the span of six years and that means a lot of trips to the hospital, a lot of my spare time being taken by caring for my mother and running errands for my dad and being a fucking adult, I'm not always on TTT, so yeah, my admin has been removed a few times for inactivity. ffs I can't even defend myself if people aren't willing to open their eyes and realize what's even going on.


When I first woke up and logged onto TTT, I was confused.. So then I go onto the forums to see this thread posted about me, and I was shocked. At first, I was completely in awe. This thread, at first sight, had ME MYSELF believing that I was a shitty admin, and as you can see by my first few posts, I was sad, and apologetic.. But then I actually opened the screenshots, and watched the demos, and now I'm PISSED because half of this is total bullshit and there's nothing I hate more than being called something I'm not.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Dante on December 29, 2013, 09:46:22 PM
While what Billy did was distasteful, there is something else that bothers me in this situation. Why did no admin talk to Billy and say "Hey, you're doing a shit job." It seems like a few admins/regs were out to get him. We didnt have to go as far as filing abuse claims when this should have been caught log ago. When I worked with Billy he was doing a fine job.
Yeah this feels fishy. I personally have had no problems with Billy that come to mind, hell I remember dragging him to TTT a few times too. Of course this was when I had admin on TTT.

You guys need to tell people if there doing something wrong or fucking up in some way, Just sitting by and collecting evidence of them fucking up and not alerting them to their misdoings or fuck ups is really a dick move.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Leetgrain on December 29, 2013, 09:48:11 PM
Wait a Second, 4 Years and yet you still troll, rdm, and break rulez. WOW. also You enforcing the rules has basically everything to do with you, and everything that has been here. But, 4 years should mean that you will not rdm, or any other type of bannable offense that you have. From some of these they are quite recent. So either you had amnesia for the past 4 years or something.

Agreed, you should know better, I've seen a lot of different things, from admins I trust wholeheartedly and some I don't really see very often. I'm sorry but how can so many people have heard reports from you if you're a supposed good soul?

It's really not in your favour.

And what Rainbow posted on your ban appeal - what most have posted here, it's just added so much to the fire (Albeit I haven't watched the Dems and can't yet). But there's a damn lot here otherwise, and you know things like this are against the rules.

Don't forget all the trolling and shit you do whenever you play TTT. You've rdm'd me multiple times on my T rounds and never slayed yourself or even acknowledge that you killed me. Not forgetting the T baiting and discombobs that kill massive groups of people. I've even seen you slay someone for killing you when you where T baiting the detective by shooting at him. You've done so much bullshit and nothing as an admin. I'm sure I can get others to back me up.

I've never seen anything majorly bad from you, maybe one or two small things, but nothing much and nothing OTT, maybe once or twice with you not slaying but that was all sorted, but this many people cant have heard all the same report now, can they?
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Christovski on December 29, 2013, 09:49:44 PM
A good chunk of those evidences I believe came from Death, so we will have to see how he responds when he comes in.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 29, 2013, 09:53:50 PM
I've never seen anything majorly bad from you, maybe one or two small things, but nothing much and nothing OTT, maybe once or twice with you not slaying but that was all sorted, but this many people cant have heard all the same report now, can they?

See, but this is where you get debunked:

THIS MANY PEOPLE? Count the thread. There are THREE people against me. MrRainbow, Chris, and TicTac. Notice how the three of them are people that are known to dislike me. I have reason to believe Nexus isn't even posting this on his own behalf, because we haven't even played together in months upon months. Everyone else posting here either didn't even know about it (probably because literally more than half of it is false), or is defending me. Now why is that? You even said yourself you've never seen anything majorly bad from me -- because I've never done anything worth a thread like this. One or two small things here and there, that I've fixed and apologized for -- things everyone goes through.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Christovski on December 29, 2013, 10:01:07 PM
I posted here because I've seen numerous people reporting issues but without evidence previously, and Death spoke to me about a few of these instances at length from whence some of this evidence in the OP comes from. 
As soon as he is here, I'm leaving it up to him.

Also note: Crovv banned you for RDM and leave, so not just me Tic and Rainbow.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Tictactoe360 on December 29, 2013, 10:01:56 PM
I've never seen anything majorly bad from you, maybe one or two small things, but nothing much and nothing OTT, maybe once or twice with you not slaying but that was all sorted, but this many people cant have heard all the same report now, can they?

See, but this is where you get debunked:

THIS MANY PEOPLE? Count the thread. There are THREE people against me. MrRainbow, Chris, and TicTac. Notice how the three of them are people that are known to dislike me. I have reason to believe Nexus isn't even posting this on his own behalf, because we haven't even played together in months upon months. Everyone else posting here either didn't even know about it (probably because literally more than half of it is false), or is defending me. Now why is that? You even said yourself you've never seen anything majorly bad from me -- because I've never done anything worth a thread like this. One or two small things here and there, that I've fixed and apologized for -- things everyone goes through.

Hey sweetie, I'm not against you, I've literally made 1 post and it isn't even my own statement, I stated that it was what I had heard from multiple people.

So how about you don't try to make this personal by stating it's because I don't like you. I stay away from you because we don't get along, I'm simple adding what I've heard to the thread.

I even stated.
"The most common thing I've heard" That's not me stating "This is what I've seen" It's me saying what I've heard and I've heard it from multiple people hence the reason I added it.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 29, 2013, 10:04:25 PM
Hey sweetie, I'm not against you, I've literally made 1 post and it isn't even my own statement, I stated that it was what I had heard from multiple people.

So how about you don't try to make this personal by stating it's because I don't like you. I stay away from you because we don't get along, I'm simple adding what I've heard to the thread.

I even stated.
"The most common thing I've heard" That's not me stating "This is what I've seen" It's me saying what I've heard and I've heard it from multiple people hence the reason I added it.

I apologize, then. I'm not trying to make this personal -  I just feel like this is biased. Please, I'm asking you. Read the damage logs yourself. Watch the demos.

(http://prntscr.com/2f06ul)

Scooby is a well-known and trusted admin, and he isn't the only person that can see there's foul play here.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Pillz on December 29, 2013, 10:10:19 PM
Billy~ The issue is that you've acted poorly as an admin and while I agree you should of been warned or talked to before a conversation like this picks up, but for some reason I've been hearing people complain about you for a month or two now. I had assumed someone had mentioned it to you by now, and I'm sorry you're just finding this out. It's not as much about breaking the rules as it is acting in a way people don't approve.

I've always believed that you're a cool guy capable of being admin, but I think you haven't taken the job too seriously and apparently it's really bothered some people. The first issue I heard was your inactivity as admin, many people were upset you had gone so long without playing, which helped us work on activity patrols; making sure admins are playing and we began removing inactive vets.

After that discussion I also picked up on RDM issues and propkilling issues from a few months back, followed by more current reports; and perhaps someone does have it out for you. Perhaps you upset an admin or two along the way without knowing you did any harm, and while I understand that's a little unfair; the things shown here look bad combined with your crude jokes and RDM reports.

I know you mean the best Billy, and I don't believe you should be banned at all and I would like to give you a second chance on being admin given you received no fair warnings. Though I also believe we should set an example for all admins and let them know if they fool around and misrepresent how to be an admin, they'll lose their admin. We've been EXTREMELY lenient in the past about what admins can get away with, and we want to really tighten that up, for CL's and admins alike.

If we were on a 3-strike system, inactivity would of been one(which was cleared with Cortez I understand), propkilling or w/e would of been two, using admin chat to talk about black cawk, 3, accidental or purposeful RDM, 4, and I'll guess there might be a strike 5 or 6 in there on someone's list. Not that any of that's too serious at all, but it's a small stack of problems that needed to be addressed. We don't want ANY of our admins doing these things and if we let one person get away with it.. well..
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Dante on December 29, 2013, 10:13:11 PM
I think part of the problem atm is people aren't looking at what is and what isn't proof for this case.
Steam conversations with non-admins: http://imgur.com/a/uMwNo (http://imgur.com/a/uMwNo)
A conversation between *Censored* and *Censored* is not proof, we have no idea who the two are talking, for all we know they can be Alt Accounts or two people with grudges against him.
Quote
Various Screenshots and reasons. These belong to other people and do not originate from me:
"I noticed the TTT server was populated. Decided to check who was on. Saw Billy had a -13 score. Came on to this:"
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50006.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50006.jpg)
I have had worst with good reasons. Hell theres been a few jokes where I will legitly and accidentaly get to 666 Karma.
Quote
"Here are a few demos (.dem files) I recorded while Billy was on the server. He was eventually banned for glitching on Christmas Town after we - X and I - warned the entire server multiple times not to go on the roof."
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_2.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_2.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_3.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_3.dem)
[/url]
I don't have gmod installed anymore, because its an addiction to me so I cant review the .dem but others say that it proves nothing, check it out for yourselves or someone upload it to youtube please.
Quote
"He did not do his job on the server at all. There was an RDM and Leave I reported twice (files below) that he did not do anything about. I doubt he was even getting logs, as there were multiple instances where I would have slain - or banned - someone and he did not take any action, including reports of RDM. He barely used admin chat or his own chat, if at all, to circumvent any mic spamming/singing or rulebreaking, and even went so far as to sing himself multiple times. He was also part of RDM at least once or twice, either on the giving or receiving end, or watched RDM occur and didn't take care of it."
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0007.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0007.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0008.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0008.jpg)
All I see is an apeship detective nothing here reads activity or inactivity.
Quote
A bunch of screenshots about Billy:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iLVZKd2J2aGVfTm8/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iLVZKd2J2aGVfTm8/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRkc0R0lFQlNDQ0k/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRkc0R0lFQlNDQ0k/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iOF9jMFQ3WWtGUVU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iOF9jMFQ3WWtGUVU/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ibkdLVEZCVHdGbkU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ibkdLVEZCVHdGbkU/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ickk2RnlmajJJd0U/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ickk2RnlmajJJd0U/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iNmJ5VUFfV0ZIN0k/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iNmJ5VUFfV0ZIN0k/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iajB3SjZseGlSeE0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iajB3SjZseGlSeE0/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX2NibV9DVzVxek0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX2NibV9DVzVxek0/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRVlIeWxTNUpPN00/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRVlIeWxTNUpPN00/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ia1E4dk9kcjFoRkk/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ia1E4dk9kcjFoRkk/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iQWw0M1ZzSmVXQTA/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iQWw0M1ZzSmVXQTA/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iY293OWhMNHNhcDQ/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iY293OWhMNHNhcDQ/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iU1I2dkNuWjdiR0E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iU1I2dkNuWjdiR0E/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX1RRaWc0M3FuSnc/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX1RRaWc0M3FuSnc/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieWtsRjJJY2d1M2c/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieWtsRjJJY2d1M2c/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idDBIcmt4eGFXRUU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idDBIcmt4eGFXRUU/edit?usp=sharing)
I see no admin abuse and the only Neglect is Either Commiting suicide or Allowing someone to play with the name Billy while he is also Billy.
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.dem Files
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iZzVFV19GY2RUT1E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iZzVFV19GY2RUT1E/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iVWlwblgtOHBpZm8/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iVWlwblgtOHBpZm8/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iUU84aFJXV20wQUE/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iUU84aFJXV20wQUE/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSk13YXVfZzE0RDg/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSk13YXVfZzE0RDg/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieXdpQ01lWV9mWVU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieXdpQ01lWV9mWVU/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idVViRW9FRVVuVFU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idVViRW9FRVVuVFU/edit?usp=sharing)
Same as other Dems, youtube plox.
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Some damage logs
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iT201Vm1ySDQxZE0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iT201Vm1ySDQxZE0/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieGt2OVZweGwtNDg/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieGt2OVZweGwtNDg/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSVZ0YVVFQ0UxQkk/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSVZ0YVVFQ0UxQkk/edit?usp=sharing)
I see nothing of Admin abuse or neglect
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This is concerning the recent ban

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50008.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50008.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50007.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50007.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20009.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20009.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20010.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20010.jpg)
All I see that can be bad is the post round slap, but that is allowed if they Do not protest it.
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More .dem

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_2.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_2.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_3.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_3.dem)
Same as before Youtube plox.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Leetgrain on December 29, 2013, 10:14:27 PM
Chris, Rainbow and Tic may have personal dislike towards you to some degree, but they're not providing any evidence. They're just saying accounts of what they've heard. They're not saying they know it for a fact. And I have heard a lot about you before, as well, so you can see why it makes me lean a little to the admin removal - unban is needed though.

While I trust Nexus and Death, and know that they know what would happen if found falsifying evidence, I also can't help the feeling of something fishy going on.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Dante on December 29, 2013, 10:17:10 PM
Chris, Rainbow and Tic may have personal dislike towards you to some degree, but they're not providing any evidence. They're just saying accounts of what they've heard. They're not saying they know it for a fact. And I have heard a lot about you before, as well, so you can see why it makes me lean a little to the admin removal - unban is needed though.

While I trust Nexus and Death, and know that they know what would happen if found falsifying evidence, I also can't help the feeling of something fishy going on.
Hence why I wan't people to look at the Demos and see if they truly are Evidence of any wrong doings. This is incredibly fishy especially since several of us haven't heard anything about this.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Pillz on December 29, 2013, 10:20:00 PM
Chris, Rainbow and Tic may have personal dislike towards you to some degree, but they're not providing any evidence. They're just saying accounts of what they've heard. They're not saying they know it for a fact. And I have heard a lot about you before, as well, so you can see why it makes me lean a little to the admin removal - unban is needed though.

While I trust Nexus and Death, and know that they know what would happen if found falsifying evidence, I also can't help the feeling of something fishy going on.
Hence why I wan't people to look at the Demos and see if they truly are Evidence of any wrong doings. This is incredibly fishy especially since several of us haven't heard anything about this.

I don't understand what's fishy though, people just think he doesn't act how admins are expected to act and he broke a few minor rules as if they weren't rules at all. There's just A LOT of evidence to sort through.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Dante on December 29, 2013, 10:23:38 PM
Chris, Rainbow and Tic may have personal dislike towards you to some degree, but they're not providing any evidence. They're just saying accounts of what they've heard. They're not saying they know it for a fact. And I have heard a lot about you before, as well, so you can see why it makes me lean a little to the admin removal - unban is needed though.

While I trust Nexus and Death, and know that they know what would happen if found falsifying evidence, I also can't help the feeling of something fishy going on.
Hence why I wan't people to look at the Demos and see if they truly are Evidence of any wrong doings. This is incredibly fishy especially since several of us haven't heard anything about this.

I don't understand what's fishy though, people just think he doesn't act how admins are expected to act and he broke a few minor rules as if they weren't rules at all. There's just A LOT of evidence to sort through.
Several TTT Admins, Regulars and people that still talk to TTT Regs and Admins have never heard of this before. And it feels out of the blue, it looks like no one brought this up due to a grudge/hate of Billy and waited till they could nail him hard, but a lot of this is not evidence.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 29, 2013, 10:25:11 PM
Billy~ The issue is that you've acted poorly as an admin and while I agree you should of been warned or talked to before a conversation like this picks up, but for some reason I've been hearing people complain about you for a month or two now. I had assumed someone had mentioned it to you by now, and I'm sorry you're just finding this out. It's not as much about breaking the rules as it is acting in a way people don't approve.

I've always believed that you're a cool guy capable of being admin, but I think you haven't taken the job too seriously and apparently it's really bothered some people. The first issue I heard was your inactivity as admin, many people were upset you had gone so long without playing, which helped us work on activity patrols; making sure admins are playing and we began removing inactive vets.

After that discussion I also picked up on RDM issues and propkilling issues from a few months back, followed by more current reports; and perhaps someone does have it out for you. Perhaps you upset an admin or two along the way without knowing you did any harm, and while I understand that's a little unfair; the things shown here look bad combined with your crude jokes and RDM reports.

I know you mean the best Billy, and I don't believe you should be banned at all and I would like to give you a second chance on being admin given you received no fair warnings. Though I also believe we should set an example for all admins and let them know if they fool around and misrepresent how to be an admin, they'll lose their admin. We've been EXTREMELY lenient in the past about what admins can get away with, and we want to really tighten that up, for CL's and admins alike.

If we were on a 3-strike system, inactivity would of been one(which was cleared with Cortez I understand), propkilling or w/e would of been two, using admin chat to talk about black cawk, 3, accidental or purposeful RDM, 4, and I'll guess there might be a strike 5 or 6 in there on someone's list. Not that any of that's too serious at all, but it's a small stack of problems that needed to be addressed. We don't want ANY of our admins doing these things and if we let one person get away with it.. well..

Well I can tell you now, this thread was definitely a wake up call. Please allow me to ask for a second chance. I feel that after four years of being a member and admin, it would be nice if I could at least get a second chance. I'm sure everyone here agrees that I've never done anything particularly severe to warrant an immediate sentence with no parole, right?

Well, if I'm allowed a second chance, what would follow after is pretty simple:
1. I won't use admin chat for anything other than admining. Period.
2. I won't slay/slap people before, during or after a round regardless of if they let me or not, unless it's for punishment reasons (ie. they rdm, etc)
3. I'll stop throwing props, running around with explosive barrels and/or the electric axe.
4. I'll try my best to keep my own RDM to a minimum (Although to be completely honest, I really do never rdm on purpose, but regardless)

There have been threads about TTT not being very fun because of too many rules, super-strict admins, etc. I would consider myself a very "fun" and "lax" admin, and most people like me because of it. But if I need to be more strict, then so be it.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: HerpDerpMike on December 29, 2013, 10:25:20 PM
I actually talked to Billy after the incidents, I believed him that he would stop. Well, since then I've seen no complaints, I've heard no complains, and I'm pretty sure no one really gave him a chance. Yes, he knew the rules, but I think someone should have told him to stop.

You asked us to make it more fun, and to loosen up. I think Billy was just trying to have fun, tbh (saying this im going to start a shitstorm). Some of the RDMs weren't even valid, like the axe thing. I even saw the guy jump right into the axe. I don't see any really "abuse", just mistreated the admin privileges a bit. Basic rules shouldn't even cause much harm, plus you guys said it yourself, this is one of the first problems that has ever occured about  Billy. Are you sure we should just remove his admin? Yes, I'm aware of all the proof against him. I provided some of that proof, I brought attention to billy that wasn't really needed after I talked to him.

However, throughout the end of this I don't really think some of these things are admin worthy.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: UnknownError on December 29, 2013, 10:29:24 PM
Yo back when I was admining..the only thing they had a problem with billy was activity. To gather this much evidence means that either Billy was totally oblivious(which I doubt) or people where like gathering up all the bad things he did. Like all admins have missteps it is so easy to get dmglogs and chatlogs out of context.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: oobla37 on December 29, 2013, 10:29:45 PM
Well, exclusively from screenshots, I'm looking at multiple events that would warrant bans to regular players. Being an admin does not put you above the rules. Without looking deeper into the other replies to this thread, I'd say that the screenshots alone warrant a ban or suspension of admin.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: BladeTwinSwords on December 29, 2013, 10:31:10 PM
I do feel it is rather unfair that Billy was not warned about the minor things he did. I know that Billy just wants people to have a better playing experience in TTT.

On the other hand. Billy, you have been here for 4 years. You should know better and know the rules by now. I have had a couple of instances where you propkilled someone or just flat-out RDM'd. I still haven't forgotten that one incident on Richland where you slap-killed me not once, but twice DURING a round. That's just inexcusable.

Over the course of the past year I have played TTT with you, there have been both positive and negative experiences. But as of recently, the negatives have been growing slowly.

Should you be banned? No I don't think that is right. Should you be stripped of admin powers? Personally, I am on the fence for this one. I have actually watched most of the demos/looked at the screenshots. Some of them are inconclusive while others are somewhat convincing.

I think this would be a very good opportunity to make a request to add SourceTV to TTT and record the server 24/7 so we can get full game demos to see just what is happening in the time before and after player-recorded demos.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: (=CG=) Scooby on December 29, 2013, 10:32:05 PM
I'm on Billy's side I've looked at several of those screenshots and they don't show anything to me (haven't watched the demos yet) I haven't had any problems with Billy no abuse reports, no admin abuse issues nothing. If you gather all the bad things an admin has done and put it all in a thread it will make them look bad no matter what this isn't fair.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Leetgrain on December 29, 2013, 10:32:30 PM
Yo back when I was admining..the only thing they had a problem with billy was activity. To gather this much evidence means that either Billy was totally oblivious(which I doubt) or people where like gathering up all the bad things he did. Like all admins have missteps it is so easy to get dmglogs and chatlogs out of context.

And that's why it smells fishy. Exactly why.

Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: theyankees213 on December 29, 2013, 10:40:46 PM
Well I say let the people making the decision ( CLs, Cortez, Nexus, few other admins maybe?) watch the demos, and see what happens from there. Lets not rush this people. Forget what you have heard and go with the proof. hes innocent until proven guilty i assume. Maybe he loses his powers. Maybe there suspended. Maybe nothing. lets Just all take a step back and not get hasty. K?
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Old Crow on December 29, 2013, 10:46:59 PM
I do feel it is rather unfair that Billy was not warned about the minor things he did. I know that Billy just wants people to have a better playing experience in TTT.

On the other hand. Billy, you have been here for 4 years. You should know better and know the rules by now. I have had a couple of instances where you propkilled someone or just flat-out RDM'd. I still haven't forgotten that one incident on Richland where you slap-killed me not once, but twice DURING a round. That's just inexcusable.

Over the course of the past year I have played TTT with you, there have been both positive and negative experiences. But as of recently, the negatives have been growing slowly.

Should you be banned? No I don't think that is right. Should you be stripped of admin powers? Personally, I am on the fence for this one. I have actually watched most of the demos/looked at the screenshots. Some of them are inconclusive while others are somewhat convincing.

I think this would be a very good opportunity to make a request to add SourceTV to TTT and record the server 24/7 so we can get full game demos to see just what is happening in the time before and after player-recorded demos.

+1 to this (not the abuse claim, DON'T KILL ME CORTEZ!)

I will say however, people need to stop saying that we didn't warn him. He has been around for so long, he knows the rules, he knows the game play. If say a trial did something once or even twice, a talking to makes sense. Billy is a regular admin, hes a big boy and doesn't need any sort of warning before he (or any reg/vet/HA/CL) starts to abuse/break rules etc.

Still need to look at the evidence, so with holding judgement.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 29, 2013, 10:51:12 PM
I will say however, people need to stop saying that we didn't warn him. He has been around for so long, he knows the rules, he knows the game play. If say a trial did something once or even twice, a talking to makes sense. Billy is a regular admin, hes a big boy and doesn't need any sort of warning before he (or any reg/vet/HA/CL) starts to abuse/break rules etc.

Still need to look at the evidence, so with holding judgement.

The thing is, Crow, that's not the point I'm trying to make. I know I don't need a warning before I break rules. I'm not saying I never got a "You can't RDM, it's against the rules." What I AM saying is I never got a, "I don't think you know this but you broke _ rule here, and I don't like it". I'm talking about after the fact. If you read the logs and watch the demos you'll see that it's evidence at all. I think it's not the rdm here, but the things that I've done are very gray zone, and people had complaints, but they never told me about it, so I continued to do distasteful things, oblivious to the fact that people did not agree.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Old Crow on December 29, 2013, 11:11:02 PM
Quote
The thing is, Crow, that's not the point I'm trying to make. I know I don't need a warning before I break rules. I'm not saying I never got a "You can't RDM, it's against the rules." What I AM saying is I never got a, "I don't think you know this but you broke _ rule here, and I don't like it". I'm talking about after the fact. If you read the logs and watch the demos you'll see that it's evidence at all. I think it's not the rdm here, but the things that I've done are very gray zone, and people had complaints, but they never told me about it, so I continued to do distasteful things, oblivious to the fact that people did not agree.

You've been an admin forever, do we really need to hold your hand? We don't hold anybody elses, minus the trials. You should be aware of the rules, and should know if your breaking them.

So still haven't seen the evidence, but honestly, if there are no major abuses, he should just get suspended. I would classify a major abuse as:

-Slaying for no reason, or little reason.
-Any abuse of powers during the round (after round is ilrevelent IMO
-RDMing, then not enforcing rules on ones self, as well as any other rules that are broken that require enforcement.
-Using admin as a threat (a real threat, not fake ones)
-Total inactivity. Not in the sense of being away but not enforcing rules.
-Only enforcing rules when somebody breaks them when they directly relate to an admin.

Concerning actual inactivity, why didn't you just resign? If your not going to play the game, or don't have the time, whats the use of having the powers when that's actually what the server needs? I can get one month, maybe two, but after three then its just a waste of an admin slot. Real life takes precedence over video games (more so in your case), so its totally understandable if you resign as such because you don't have the time.

Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 29, 2013, 11:18:34 PM

You've been an admin forever, do we really need to hold your hand? We don't hold anybody elses, minus the trials. You should be aware of the rules, and should know if your breaking them.

So still haven't seen the evidence, but honestly, if there are no major abuses, he should just get suspended. I would classify a major abuse as:

-Slaying for no reason, or little reason.
-Any abuse of powers during the round (after round is ilrevelent IMO
-RDMing, then not enforcing rules on ones self, as well as any other rules that are broken that require enforcement.
-Using admin as a threat (a real threat, not fake ones)
-Total inactivity. Not in the sense of being away but not enforcing rules.
-Only enforcing rules when somebody breaks them when they directly relate to an admin.

Concerning actual inactivity, why didn't you just resign? If your not going to play the game, or don't have the time, whats the use of having the powers when that's actually what the server needs? I can get one month, maybe two, but after three then its just a waste of an admin slot. Real life takes precedence over video games (more so in your case), so its totally understandable if you resign as such because you don't have the time.

I'm not asking to have my hand held. Let me try to make an analogy for what I mean. If you work at McDonalds and you burn a burger, the manager isn't going to hold your hand and teach you how to cook one properly. He's not going to immediately fire you, either. He's going to tell you not to burn the burgers again. That's what I'm trying to say. I've burned a few burgers, and everyone ate them without complaining. I thought the burgers were cooked just fine, but the whole time they've been crispy, and no one told me. Instead, what the manager did was take a picture of every burger that I've burned, and then at the end of the month, showed them all to me and fired me. It would have been a lot easier if he just told me I was doing wrong the first time, and then it would have all been fixed.

And I didn't resign because I still posted on the forums occasionally, and I still played on TTT perhaps.. Once or twice a week at the time. But inactivity isn't really an issue for me anymore. Since I became a reg, I've been on TTT consistently.

According to your list, I haven't broken any major rules. If Cortez and/or the other CLs read all of this, look through the "evidence" and come to the conclusion that I should be suspended, then so be it. But I honestly feel as if this is a large misunderstanding, and not really a case of "admin abuse". I can only ask not to have my powers remove, and prove that these things are not the case and that I'm fully capable of being what one would call an 'exemplary admin'.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: oobla37 on December 29, 2013, 11:29:08 PM
My final 2 cents.
Alright, here's the deal. I'm going to cite 2 pieces of evidence. There is one where he slaps a guy a bunch for 0, and multiple incidences of admin chat abuse. I don't think these are punishable right now, but if anything like that happens again, we'll have an issue.

As far as I know, all this evidence is rather old. It's not my call to make a judgement on billy, but if I could, I might suspend for a short period of time, and watch him.

Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: AlphaWeeaboo on December 29, 2013, 11:47:53 PM
As far as it goes:
Ban? no.
Removed from admin? to be determined. I'm still browsing through all the evidence and can't really give any input onto that matter.

It seems a lot of people have been put off by his actions but at the same time he brings up an interesting point. Hell, I want to blame myself because this shit has been talked about on and off for months and not once did it cross my mind to talk to Billy about his behavior. His analogy is pretty much spot on. Maybe things would have been different, maybe not.

Maybe a demotion to trial rank and a strict leash would be in order. It's up to Cortez though. Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Dante on December 30, 2013, 12:10:36 AM
My final 2 cents.
Alright, here's the deal. I'm going to cite 2 pieces of evidence. There is one where he slaps a guy a bunch for 0, and multiple incidences of admin chat abuse. I don't think these are punishable right now, but if anything like that happens again, we'll have an issue.

As far as I know, all this evidence is rather old. It's not my call to make a judgement on billy, but if I could, I might suspend for a short period of time, and watch him.
The slaps are allowed post round if they are ok with it though, the screens with those slaps don't have any protesting to it, so it verry well could have been in fun with friends.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: crovv on December 30, 2013, 12:13:48 AM
Alright, this is going to cause a problem, since I haven't been online all day so I speed-read through the topic and therefore probably missed a lot of major points.

A lot of the evidence is mine. The dates on my evidence are the nights (and therefore sometimes next-mornings) of December 25 and 28 - just this week. The reason the evidence is so recent is because I'm never on the server at the same time as Billy, and noticed he wasn't doing his job as well as he could have.

First, I'll start with the ban:
Billy, you were banned for one week for RDM and Leave. On the next map, the person you killed reported you as RDMing with the axe, and you had been killing multiple people with the axe without them jumping into it, so I believed it. If this was false, feel free to look for an unban, but I don't think he (Mayor) was the one jumping into your axe all the time. I have the .dem files to prove it, we'll see, but people were complaining about you using the axe all night. Maybe he was just trying to frame you.

Next, the .dem files and other evidence:
He has been banned twice now. Once for glitching - an offense that isn't too bad, considering he only did it once with other admins around, but the one time that we did catch him,

Some people are saying the chat logs can be faked, as they are censored. here's the uncensored versions.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/SenpaiBilly2.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/SenpaiBilly1.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/SenpaiBilly3.png

Senpai also added this when I asked him if posting the uncensored version would be alright (I wasn't the one who censored them, so I wondered if the people involved would not like their names shown).
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/SenpaiBilly4.png

To be honest, the .dem files mostly originated from my general recordings of GMod, so I'd have to edit them a LOT in order to upload them to YouTube with only the evidence against Billy involved. I don't have this kind of time right now, but I can work on it if it will make this process go faster.

The RDM and Leave evidence is very out of place, I agree, but in that part of the demo (I was recording at the same time), I reported the RDM and Leave twice - once before, once after the map change - and Billy did nothing about it. I did ban him later that day, so it's no problem, but this is just one instance of Billy missing slays/bans that I screenshotted rather than recorded.

A few more notes.
Billy, I'm not out to get you. I may have been collecting all this evidence against you, but at first it was purely circumstantial. I happened to be recording and taking screenshots, and I noticed that you weren't doing your job correctly. I contacted someone else about it, rather than talking to you directly. As someone of the same rank I didn't see it to be my place to use this evidence against you, so I made sure someone knew about what was going on, and it turns out people did, and that's where this thread came from, I guess.
The moment in particular where I noticed you were -13 score, I was concerned, so I came on to see if you needed any help. Then I realized it was only you with such low karma and score, so I stayed, looked around, and from my point of view only saw some instances of RDM amongst playing with the two people who were apparently okay with you killing them and them killing you over explosive barrels. This is not my judgement call, but I think you need a reminder of what being an admin is about. TTT is supposed to be a game - fun, and admining it gets stressful at times, but ignoring your responsibilities, especially when you're the only admin on, means ruining other people's experiences because, unfortunately, TTT is a game where not having an admin on means free reign of RDM, revenge RDM, and rulebreaking. If you're going to act like a regular rather than an admin, why not become a regular rather than an admin?
You are an admin, which means you aren't above the rules, but you also have to enforce them. If this doesn't end with your suspension or a removal of your admin, here are a few notes for you: Investigate slays and bans more, re-read the rules and follow them more closely, and don't break them or promote breaking them.

The slaps are allowed post round if they are ok with it though, the screens with those slaps don't have any protesting to it, so it verry well could have been in fun with friends.
You are correct - my screenshot with the slaps is meant to show Billy leaving the server after an RDM, not him slapping people. The slaps were post-round. "Fun with friends" is debatable, but the slaps in question were not abuse.

TL;DR: The basis of my argument against Billy, if we should call it an argument, is that he is neglecting his rank rather than abusing it. He misses a lot of bans and slays, even when reported, and breaks some of the rules though he should know them by now.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 30, 2013, 12:26:49 AM
-snip because long-

A few more notes.
Billy, I'm not out to get you. I may have been collecting all this evidence against you, but at first it was purely circumstantial. I happened to be recording and taking screenshots, and I noticed that you weren't doing your job correctly. I contacted someone else about it, rather than talking to you directly. As someone of the same rank I didn't see it to be my place to use this evidence against you, so I made sure someone knew about what was going on, and it turns out people did, and that's where this thread came from, I guess.
The moment in particular where I noticed you were -13 score, I was concerned, so I came on to see if you needed any help. Then I realized it was only you with such low karma and score, so I stayed, looked around, and from my point of view only saw some instances of RDM amongst playing with the two people who were apparently okay with you killing them and them killing you over explosive barrels. This is not my judgement call, but I think you need a reminder of what being an admin is about. TTT is supposed to be a game - fun, and admining it gets stressful at times, but ignoring your responsibilities, especially when you're the only admin on, means ruining other people's experiences because, unfortunately, TTT is a game where not having an admin on means free reign of RDM, revenge RDM, and rulebreaking. If you're going to act like a regular rather than an admin, why not become a regular rather than an admin?
You are an admin, which means you aren't above the rules, but you also have to enforce them. If this doesn't end with your suspension or a removal of your admin, here are a few notes for you: Investigate slays and bans more, re-read the rules and follow them more closely, and don't break them or promote breaking them.

The slaps are allowed post round if they are ok with it though, the screens with those slaps don't have any protesting to it, so it verry well could have been in fun with friends.
You are correct - my screenshot with the slaps is meant to show Billy leaving the server after an RDM, not him slapping people. The slaps were post-round. "Fun with friends" is debatable, but the slaps in question were not abuse.

TL;DR: The basis of my argument against Billy, if we should call it an argument, is that he is neglecting his rank rather than abusing it. He misses a lot of bans and slays, even when reported, and breaks some of the rules though he should know them by now.

Thank you for your post, crovv. I'd like to address everything as they were mentioned in order, so about the rooftops rdm with Mayor -- as HerpDerpMike said, he was the one killing himself on my axe. I'm guessing the last time he was killed (before I logged off) he was actually playing seriously that round, and reported it because he was killed. I apologize for that. I should have stayed on longer and saw to it that I had myself killed for him, and then logged off.

As for the richland low karma, that was explained too. Fun with barrels, etc. No need to go deeper into that.

You're right. When other admins are on, I usually lay low and let them take over. I guess I got used to it, too. That was my fault. When I'm the only admin online, it's usually because it's like 4 in the morning and there's <10 people on the server; I don't take it very seriously. That's my fault too. From now on - assuming my powers aren't removed - that will stop. I posted the things that will change in page 3, and I'll stick to my word. I'd also like to add onto that: I'll take my rank more seriously, especially when I really need to be admining, ie. when I'm the only admin on and it's late.

TL;DR I've developed poor admin habits, and they need to be changed. I realize this now. I guess this thread was my giant warning. Please give me the chance to correct what I've done wrong.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Cadaver on December 30, 2013, 01:19:49 AM
My 2 cents: For what they are worth, coming from an old fart:

Disappointed in several things.
1) This should have been discussed with Billy, first.
2) A HA Apprentice should have handled this way better... Looks like you may need more training.  Being polite always works better.  Makes you look good, and the other a douche, if the need arises.  (From what I am seeing here, again, I do not have all the info.)
3) Billy, you have been around a very long time, and are fun to game with.
4) That said, yes, I too, have heard some things. Not enough to warrant calling you out on the carpet, but enough to watch.  When I watched (Alt accounts are great) I did not see any major rule violations.
5) That said, I cannot discount the number of people now complaining.

How I would have handled this situation:
1) Bring the HA of the server in question into the situation early.  Why? Cause it is up to the HA as to what to do with a possible rogue Admin. So, therefore he/she/it must be fully informed.
2) Watch.  If he was acting inappropriately, he will do so, even when you are online.  Or use an Alt Account.
3) IF the Admin is misbehaving, talk to him/her/it.  Advise them they are not following the rules.  Do it nicely.  Keep record of the conversation.
4) Watch some more.  If the behavior does not change for the better, then:
5) Get adequate proof.  Vids of him misbehaving. Logs of the stuff he stated in chat. Damage logs. Etc.
6) Get witnesses to back up the proof.
7) Give copies of all proof to the HA.
8 ) Advise the CL AFTER telling the HA, and ONLY if it is a severe case. (Severe = Racism, Sexism, Homophobia, Bullying, major abuses of powers crippling game play.)
9) Have the HA handle it.  (It is their jerb...)
If you believe it was not handled appropriately, talk to HA again, and bring it to the attention of the CL.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Dante on December 30, 2013, 01:43:46 AM
It sounds like Billy just unwound, when another admin got on, letting them work, or when there was a low pop. And if he is undercover punishing for rdm would break his cover so its somewhat reasonable he wouldn't deal with rdm.

I really don't think Billy deserves suspension or demotion I think at worst this should be a "Don't fuck up again" warning. Or as Billy put it "Don't burn those burgers again"
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: crovv on December 30, 2013, 01:57:39 AM
And if he is undercover punishing for rdm would break his cover so its somewhat reasonable he wouldn't deal with rdm.

That really doesn't make any sense. You're still an admin, undercover or not; you can use ulx asay (@@) to admin if you want to keep your cover. It honestly sounds like you're just blindly defending Billy, Dante. When I'm undercover I still punish for rulebreaking, I just make sure they don't know it's me.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Ðeath. on December 30, 2013, 01:59:08 AM
The big issue I've seen is.. Slacking off, is it? Inactivity? Anywho, going afk in a server isn't great; it falsifies your hours if you're going away for a while. And if someone RDM&Leaves, and there is another admin on, and hasn't done anything about it because they're either undercover or AFK, or busy, etc. Perhaps taking matters into your own hands is a well idea. I believe I have screenshots of an RDM&LEAVE left unhandled 'til after you had left.
Not doing job? That too. Two issues I have most here. Admin Abuse? I remember a while ago i was playing rooftops with you and you rdm'd me, and one (or two,) others, then left the server. I was not admin at that point, I believe.
I might have to review the demos, all the screenshots are not necessarily proof (from my end,) but to prove "This is Billy."

I had brought it up with two people back then, too. Old Crow, whom forwarded my proof back to me, and Cortez, I believe he says I did not send him proof/a request to do something of it. Since I heard no indicator anything occurred, I decided to bring this up again. Six months later, but relevant I suppose. I can't see all of the proof at the moment. I can see it in two days, though, a computer isn't really something I have at the moment.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Dante on December 30, 2013, 02:01:56 AM
And if he is undercover punishing for rdm would break his cover so its somewhat reasonable he wouldn't deal with rdm.

That really doesn't make any sense. You're still an admin, undercover or not; you can use ulx asay (@@) to admin if you want to keep your cover. It honestly sounds like you're just blindly defending Billy, Dante. When I'm undercover I still punish for rulebreaking, I just make sure they don't know it's me.
Actually it makes perfect sense. Think, what if your going after an aimbotter. Your trying to get evidence, then someone reports rdm when you are oh so close to get the fucker gone, do you deal with the rdm, which may even be false, getting the hackers attention, letting him turn off his hacks. OR do you ignore the possibly petty rdm and try to nail the SOB.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: HerpDerpMike on December 30, 2013, 02:08:53 AM
I vote no punishment, just a warning.

He proved to me he changed, after talking to him about the situation (before this thread even happened) no problems occurred with him. He just now knows not to. So I believe it wasn't entirely his fault, other admins should have told him to stop with all the complains, which brings up another question.. why didn't they?
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 30, 2013, 02:09:59 AM
To answer the claims of my lack of admining when I'm the only admin (or maybe there's two) on:

When someone comes in and RDMs one or two people - and I'm talking blatant RDM - would you rather:
Slay them next round
or
Let them live the next round to see if they KEEP RDMing, and then ban them after for mass/continuous RDM?

Personally, I choose the second. So if you feel like I'm not doing my job (I admit, I do occasionally just miss reports due to being alt tabbed, etc) that's usually what I'm doing. Stop RDM for one round or ban an RDMer for good?

Also, Cadaver makes great points and I'm glad he understands what I was talking about, what with how sudden and surprising this was.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Blackllama on December 30, 2013, 02:18:39 AM
Some of this evidence is good, some isn't evidence.

I don't like the whole wait-for-a-ton-of-evidence-to-pile-up-and-then-report strategy. I agree with billy, it seems a bit unfair. A lot of these screenshots are 6 months old. Were they reported 6 months ago? If Billy was punished, good. If not, why the hell wasn't the brought up 6 months ago? It becomes a bit unfair for the admin. They don't remember what happened with those damage logs. Maybe the server logs would shine some light on the situation. If we want to look at the logs, cortez has to go back 6 months. (If we even keep logs that old). As Billy said, maybe it wouldn't have ended up this way if those screenshots had been brought up six months ago.

This thread is a huge mess of evidence/not evidence. Don't just a slap a bunch of demos onto an abuse report without watching them hoping it'll get your guy removed.

What I think of the evidence:

Various Screenshots and reasons. These belong to other people and do not originate from me:
"I noticed the TTT server was populated. Decided to check who was on. Saw Billy had a -13 score. Came on to this:"
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50006.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50006.jpg)
Not under 700 karma, not rules broken in that regard. Having a low score is not disallowed. Maybe he was crowbar fighting, maybe not. Not evidence of anything.

"Here are a few demos (.dem files) I recorded while Billy was on the server. He was eventually banned for glitching on Christmas Town after we - X and I - warned the entire server multiple times not to go on the roof."
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_2.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_2.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_3.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-25%2020-51-01_3.dem)
Didn't watch demos. Going off of the description, should receive a ban for going on rooftop.

"He did not do his job on the server at all. There was an RDM and Leave I reported twice (files below) that he did not do anything about. I doubt he was even getting logs, as there were multiple instances where I would have slain - or banned - someone and he did not take any action, including reports of RDM. He barely used admin chat or his own chat, if at all, to circumvent any mic spamming/singing or rulebreaking, and even went so far as to sing himself multiple times. He was also part of RDM at least once or twice, either on the giving or receiving end, or watched RDM occur and didn't take care of it."
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0007.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0007.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0008.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_amsterville0008.jpg)
No evidence of a report for the RDM/Leave. Might be true, still not evidence.

A bunch of screenshots about Billy:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iLVZKd2J2aGVfTm8/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iLVZKd2J2aGVfTm8/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRkc0R0lFQlNDQ0k/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRkc0R0lFQlNDQ0k/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iOF9jMFQ3WWtGUVU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iOF9jMFQ3WWtGUVU/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ibkdLVEZCVHdGbkU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ibkdLVEZCVHdGbkU/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ickk2RnlmajJJd0U/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ickk2RnlmajJJd0U/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iNmJ5VUFfV0ZIN0k/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iNmJ5VUFfV0ZIN0k/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iajB3SjZseGlSeE0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iajB3SjZseGlSeE0/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX2NibV9DVzVxek0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX2NibV9DVzVxek0/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRVlIeWxTNUpPN00/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iRVlIeWxTNUpPN00/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ia1E4dk9kcjFoRkk/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ia1E4dk9kcjFoRkk/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iQWw0M1ZzSmVXQTA/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iQWw0M1ZzSmVXQTA/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iY293OWhMNHNhcDQ/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iY293OWhMNHNhcDQ/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iU1I2dkNuWjdiR0E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iU1I2dkNuWjdiR0E/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX1RRaWc0M3FuSnc/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iX1RRaWc0M3FuSnc/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieWtsRjJJY2d1M2c/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieWtsRjJJY2d1M2c/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idDBIcmt4eGFXRUU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idDBIcmt4eGFXRUU/edit?usp=sharing)
I gave my opinon on the old evidence. It should've been posted 6 months ago. For the life of me I can't figure out why. If you think an admin is abusing, you don't let them keep abusing for 6 months.

.dem Files

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iZzVFV19GY2RUT1E/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iZzVFV19GY2RUT1E/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iVWlwblgtOHBpZm8/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iVWlwblgtOHBpZm8/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iUU84aFJXV20wQUE/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iUU84aFJXV20wQUE/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSk13YXVfZzE0RDg/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSk13YXVfZzE0RDg/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieXdpQ01lWV9mWVU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieXdpQ01lWV9mWVU/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idVViRW9FRVVuVFU/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5idVViRW9FRVVuVFU/edit?usp=sharing)
I'm pretty sure these go with the screenshots as they're from about the same timeframe.


Some damage logs

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iT201Vm1ySDQxZE0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iT201Vm1ySDQxZE0/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieGt2OVZweGwtNDg/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5ieGt2OVZweGwtNDg/edit?usp=sharing)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSVZ0YVVFQ0UxQkk/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwevx6JGfM5iSVZ0YVVFQ0UxQkk/edit?usp=sharing)
Okay, for anyone who couldn't figure out what the hell these screenshots meant (like me), it's supposed to billy rdming and leaving (or so I think). I spent forever staring at the screenshot of the status, trying to figure out who billy was. Eventually looked up his steam ID and realized he wasn't on the list. He rdms someone in the logs. I'd be nice if you had annotated that this was supposed to be of an rdm/leave. I understand that this is 6 months old and you may not have remembered. That's okay. Billy probably doesn't remember either.  Bad on Billy for RDM/Leaving. Should've been banned 6 months ago. Banning someone for something they did a long time ago doesn't sit right with me. It's like watching someone RDM and then waiting a whole map before slaying them. Still, terrible admin behavior.

This is concerning the recent ban

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50008.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50008.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50007.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b50007.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20009.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20009.jpg)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20010.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/ttt_wintermansion_beta20010.jpg)
This is very good evidence. I wish it was all like this :L

More .dem

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_2.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_2.dem)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_3.dem (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62501198/SenpaiBilly/dm_richland_notrap_b5%202013-12-28%2023-24-54_3.dem)
Didn't watch demos, if nexus couldn't be bothered neither could I.



To sum it up: Don't punish him for anything 6 months old. That's stupid. It's your fault for not bringing it up when it was actually relevant. It sounds like he's prepared to act better as an admin. The fresh evidence shows him abusing /slap   . Regardless of whether or not the targets are okay with it, /slap spam is annoying. Not any other abuse, unless I missed it. He was already banned for the recent RDM. Maybe his admin should be removed for breaking the rules. The abuse is very minor though. Doesn't have to be removed necessarily. Plenty of admins have been banned and remained admin before.

pre-edit: Sounds like bloodmage tried to report the 6 month old shit. Makes me very happy it wasn't just neglected evidence like I thought. It wasn't reported publicly though. It should have been handled, but it apparently wasn't. Guess that's a failure in leadership? If you want to make sure the admin acknowledges it, public abuse reports work great. Sounds like Billy didn't receive word he was abusing his admin back then. It still seems unfair to me that he would be punished now for something that happened then. Especially considering the leadership apparently had seen the evidence.



Pre-edit2
When someone comes in and RDMs one or two people - and I'm talking blatant RDM - would you rather:
Slay them next round
or
Let them live the next round to see if they KEEP RDMing, and then ban them after for mass/continuous RDM?
That's not the way it should happen. The first is proper. They don't get a fair warning if they don't get punished. There's a reason the we have individual slays instead of waiting for 3 RDM's to straight up ban.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 30, 2013, 02:26:52 AM
Some of this evidence is good, some isn't evidence.

I don't like the whole wait-for-a-ton-of-evidence-to-pile-up-and-then-report strategy. I agree with billy, it seems a bit unfair. A lot of these screenshots are 6 months old. Were they reported 6 months ago? If Billy was punished, good. If not, why the hell wasn't the brought up 6 months ago? It becomes a bit unfair for the admin. They don't remember what happened with those damage logs. Maybe the server logs would shine some light on the situation. If we want to look at the logs, cortez has to go back 6 months. (If we even keep logs that old). As Billy said, maybe it wouldn't have ended up this way if those screenshots had been brought up six months ago.

This thread is a huge mess of evidence/not evidence. Don't just a slap a bunch of demos onto an abuse report without watching them hoping it'll get your guy removed.

-snip-



To sum it up: Don't punish him for anything 6 months old. That's stupid. It's your fault for not bringing it up when it was actually relevant. It sounds like he's prepared to act better as an admin. The fresh evidence shows him abusing /slap   . Regardless of whether or not the targets are okay with it, /slap spam is annoying. Not any other abuse, unless I missed it. He was already banned for the recent RDM. Maybe his admin should be removed for breaking the rules. The abuse is very minor though. Doesn't have to be removed necessarily. Plenty of admins have been banned and remained admin before.

pre-edit: Sounds like bloodmage tried to report the 6 month old shit. Makes me very happy it wasn't just neglected evidence like I thought. It wasn't reported publicly though. It should have been handled, but it apparently wasn't. Guess that's a failure in leadership? If you want to make sure the admin acknowledges it, public abuse reports work great. Sounds like Billy didn't receive word he was abusing his admin back then. It still seems unfair to me that he would be punished now for something that happened then. Especially considering the leadership apparently had seen the evidence.



Pre-edit2
When someone comes in and RDMs one or two people - and I'm talking blatant RDM - would you rather:
Slay them next round
or
Let them live the next round to see if they KEEP RDMing, and then ban them after for mass/continuous RDM?
That's not the way it should happen. The first is proper. They don't get a fair warning if they don't get punished. There's a reason the we have individual slays instead of waiting for 3 RDM's to straight up ban.

You make a good point (referring to very bottom of quote). I'll stop doing that, then.

Also, where you said "this is good evidence, I wish it was all like this" those have been explained. The RDM was mutual, and the spam slapping, while annoying (I said I'd stop it, regardless) was consented to.

As Blackllama and crovv said, most of this evidence is very old - since before I became a regular admin.. And the newer stuff, specifically the richland and rooftop things were just goofing around late at night. I can't account for the "multiple complaints" because I don't know who was complaining, and for what reason. This once again brings up the fact that no one told me about any of this in the first place. I'm a mad of my word. I would have righted my wrongs and corrected my behavior a long time ago if an admin messaged me and told me people were complaining about the things I do.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Ðeath. on December 30, 2013, 02:34:15 AM
I had brought up that a while ago actually when I was a VA; don't slack/be lenient, is Cortez rule apparently, when it comes to bans and slays. I believe the title of my thread had The words Servers and TTT in it, if you don't mind looking for it.

I'd like to apologize to all for my suddenness and surprising actions, I.e. Banning lilg, gopib, presenting of proof. Again, only bringing it up because it failed to be attended to.


I'll be reviewing the evidence when I get back, though. Also, you were a reg admin at the time. Just saying.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Sejo Mino on December 30, 2013, 02:39:39 AM

I'm not asking to have my hand held. Let me try to make an analogy for what I mean. If you work at McDonalds and you burn a burger, the manager isn't going to hold your hand and teach you how to cook one properly. He's not going to immediately fire you, either. He's going to tell you not to burn the burgers again. That's what I'm trying to say. I've burned a few burgers, and everyone ate them without complaining. I thought the burgers were cooked just fine, but the whole time they've been crispy, and no one told me. Instead, what the manager did was take a picture of every burger that I've burned, and then at the end of the month, showed them all to me and fired me. It would have been a lot easier if he just told me I was doing wrong the first time, and then it would have all been fixed.

I was going to mention on this. Their is a difference between having 4 years of experience then having only 1 month. It is also common courtesy that if you burn something then you should more then likely remake it in MC Donald's. Also if you make a person's food burnt and then you server it and they get hurt because of such mistake then you will more then likely cause the business to get sued. 4 years is a huge difference then 1 month. In 4 years time you should know how to make the food, you should know how not to server food that is not within standards. If you are in that lazy shape that you will knowingly give out the burger anyways then it is right for the Manager to fire you. We are trying to keep a high level of expectation with everyone. Hopefully not any Half***ed work. like you said earlier that no one needs to hold your hands, if you know you did it then you should know that it is going to have consequences.

Also talking about MC Donald's got me Hungry. Laterz XP
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 30, 2013, 02:51:37 AM
I was going to mention on this. Their is a difference between having 4 years of experience then having only 1 month. It is also common courtesy that if you burn something then you should more then likely remake it in MC Donald's. Also if you make a person's food burnt and then you server it and they get hurt because of such mistake then you will more then likely cause the business to get sued. 4 years is a huge difference then 1 month. In 4 years time you should know how to make the food, you should know how not to server food that is not within standards. If you are in that lazy shape that you will knowingly give out the burger anyways then it is right for the Manager to fire you. We are trying to keep a high level of expectation with everyone. Hopefully not any Half***ed work. like you said earlier that no one needs to hold your hands, if you know you did it then you should know that it is going to have consequences.

The thing is, I do know the rules. That's not the problem here. I never broke any rules on purpose. Most of the things I did are in the "gray zone" ie. not really breaking rules but people might not like it, etc. And no one ever told me that I had complaints against me. Uh.. In analogy form: I do know how to make the burger, in this case. But I added on seasonings that some people liked -- and others didn't like. And the people that didn't like the seasonings never told me. Instead of telling me they don't like seasoning on their burgers, they stockpiled them for months and then dumped them on my head out of nowhere..

As it has already been said: MOST of this evidence is about 6 months old. I didn't break any major rules. They were minor offenses that have been tallied up that I didn't know about, or everyone seemed okay with it at the time, so I wasn't putting too much thought into it. But now that it has /finally/ been brought to my attention, I can change what I did wrong and apologize for the wrongs I've done to those people.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Sejo Mino on December 30, 2013, 02:59:04 AM
I was going to mention on this. Their is a difference between having 4 years of experience then having only 1 month. It is also common courtesy that if you burn something then you should more then likely remake it in MC Donald's. Also if you make a person's food burnt and then you server it and they get hurt because of such mistake then you will more then likely cause the business to get sued. 4 years is a huge difference then 1 month. In 4 years time you should know how to make the food, you should know how not to server food that is not within standards. If you are in that lazy shape that you will knowingly give out the burger anyways then it is right for the Manager to fire you. We are trying to keep a high level of expectation with everyone. Hopefully not any Half***ed work. like you said earlier that no one needs to hold your hands, if you know you did it then you should know that it is going to have consequences.

The thing is, I do know the rules. That's not the problem here. I never broke any rules on purpose. Most of the things I did are in the "gray zone" ie. not really breaking rules but people might not like it, etc. And no one ever told me that I had complaints against me. Uh.. In analogy form: I do know how to make the burger, in this case. But I added on seasonings that some people liked -- and others didn't like. And the people that didn't like the seasonings never told me. Instead of telling me they don't like seasoning on their burgers, they stockpiled them for months and then dumped them on my head out of nowhere..

As it has already been said: MOST of this evidence is about 6 months old. I didn't break any major rules. They were minor offenses that have been tallied up that I didn't know about, or everyone seemed okay with it at the time, so I wasn't putting too much thought into it. But now that it has /finally/ been brought to my attention, I can change what I did wrong and apologize for the wrongs I've done to those people.
The Moral of the Burger story is *Don't Add Seasonings* it might cause problems. A ton of different factors come into play. Maybe one day when serving you end up causing a person to have an allergic reaction because of a seasoning that was added. Something that was made to be what it was suppose to be but then altered without anyone knowing. This can cause problems then end up in the predicament that you are currently in. Also it would be funny to see 6 months worth of burgers getting dumped on someone.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 30, 2013, 03:12:53 AM
Let it be noted that I was in fact not a regular admin at the time those screenshots were taken, sans the new ones involving richland/rooftops.

Also, Sejo Mino, duly noted. I will no longer season my burgers.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Kwaurtz on December 30, 2013, 02:01:41 PM
Or, heres this one. You don't get fired over minor things. You get coached initially. If the leadership failed to address this early on, its the leaderships fault. You are the ones here to guide the admins under you and set them straight. Collecting evidence without even trying to fix the problem or address it head on is a failure in leadership, a failure of your job as head admin, head admin assistant, and veteran admins to Billy. Regardless of how long he has been here, you are the people ahead of him in line, its your job to correct him when wrong, not sit here an amount a mountain of evidence which half of it doesn't really even prove anything.


This going undercover to record evidence is Wholegrain style shit, and its fucking disgusting and a majority of you should be ashamed of yourselves for not even giving Billy the time of day to address the problem with him before you jump to try and punish him.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Christovski on December 30, 2013, 02:33:16 PM
Even barring the evidence collected in such a manner, there is still the matter of the ban for RDM and leave, and the hour ban Billy received.

Just sayin'.

I don't remember many admins being banned without consequences to their admin status, whether it be suspension or whatever the HA deems fit.

Not trying to start an argument, just reminding that there is more to this than the undercover stuff.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Old Crow on December 30, 2013, 02:48:23 PM
So evidence sucks, doesn't really show much.

This entire thing has spiraled out of control. Like I said before there shouldn't be hand holding, but there should have been a previous waring for something minor like this. The fact that the evidence is six months old alone should have told you that it was minor.

HA/HAa and CL's, you guys need to review the evidence before you post it. Seems like the gun was jumped.

At this point though, Billy I'd say its safe to say that now your warned, in the worst possible way  parrot

Only punishment I could honestly say would be like a two week suspension. Anything other then that is too much.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Billy on December 30, 2013, 03:01:06 PM
Even barring the evidence collected in such a manner, there is still the matter of the ban for RDM and leave, and the hour ban Billy received.

Just sayin'.

I don't remember many admins being banned without consequences to their admin status, whether it be suspension or whatever the HA deems fit.

Not trying to start an argument, just reminding that there is more to this than the undercover stuff.

The week ban for RDM and leave has already been discussed with crovv, the person who banned me. The RDMs involving TastyBagel and PaperClips were just goofing around between 3 people, late at night, with the explosive barrels at the bottom of Richland. And the RDM on Mayor on Rooftops wasn't really RDM. He would jump onto/run into the electric axe on purpose, while I was holding it. HerpDerpMike was on, and he saw it himself. According to crovv, he actually reported it as rdm the last time, but that was a round or two after I left, I think. So the week ban should be lifted.

As for the hour ban for glitching on rooftops, well. I have no excuse for that. I went onto the roof, killed myself and then went afk.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse/Neglect - Billy
Post by: Cortez (Mr. T. FOO!) on December 30, 2013, 05:33:30 PM
Okay, I didn't think this thread would amount to what it has but I think that it is a good thing. You guys have shown a lot of maturity in this thread, especially you Billy, which makes me happy. I do apologize for not having sat down and talked to you about this earlier as I have been hearing complaints for some time. I asked for this thread to be made because a ton of "evidence" was shown to me yesterday that I didn't know about and I felt that there was defiantly a need for some discussion and there is. I feel that a lot of good points have come up in this thread and while there are defiantly people that feel that you should be removed, the general concensus doesn't. This includes myself. While you should have realised where you were going wrong I can't necessarily blame you for not knowing if no one tried to tell you, so I would like you to consider this thread one massive warning. Breaking the rules is NOT okay, even if it is just for kicks. It's alright to mess around with props and stuff, you just have to be smart about this. Ask yourself, "Would someone else be punished for doing this?" If the answer is yes, don't do it. As for the neglect of your responsibilities, which is the chief complaint that I've heard, the answer is simple. Just do the job that you volunteered to do.

I think you're a good player Billy and you can be a good admin. For the next while you're going to be a sort of probation, if people start coming to me with evidence of abuse, rule breaking or of you not punishing rule breakers you're privileges will be removed. Thread locked.

PS. I'm going to remove the ban as well.
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